Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

[BlueLegume]

Good morning all. I am normally rooted over on the Elderly parents threads. Just as I thought life couldn’t get more difficult it has. A week ago my adult daughter told us she was in a relationship with someone who identifies as male. This person was born female - daughter troped out the ‘gender assigned at birth’ nonsense. She has utterly ripped the family apart as she clearly has drunk the kool aid and cannot understand our concerns.

She has a great job, we are normal family where she says she has always felt safe and is loved.

Any advice welcome navigating this. Happy to answer questions but I will caveat this post with the following:

I am a sex realist. I hate the term gender critical.
I do not buy gender ideology. I think it is a term being used to expect society to accept trans etc off the back of the hard won rights for lesbians and gay men.

I do not believe anyone can change sex.

The ‘be kind’ mantra is a weaponised term to justify the nonsense.

Advice welcome.

@Alwayswonderedwhy my daughter has told me she needs me to refer to her partner as a man. What part of being expected to accept someone has changed sex, call them him when he is a she and then expect my daughter to reframe her lesbian sexuality as bi constitutes anything healthy.

Obviously the person your DD is dating is actually female and nothing is going to ever make them actually male. But I don't see why that has to "rip the family apart" - your DD is in a same-sex relationship. So what? One of my child's closest friends has identified as the opposite sex for the last 5 years and I have managed to get through that 5 years without ever using a 3rd person pronoun about them whilst regularly supplying them with playstationing snacks & pizza etc. It's easy enough. You don't have to believe in the magic sex-change-miracle to be pleasant.

Edit in the light of your lastest update above - your DD does not get to control your beliefs - you can be perfectly kind and welcoming and supportive without lying. If your DD can't accept anything less than actual lies then that's a serious problem with her capacity for understanding boundaries and respect that she needs to learn to deal with.

There is nothing healthy about being in a relationship with someone who wants to control everyone around them. This is a mentally ill and controlling person who is trying to cut her partner off from her family. If they were saying they are a man but respecting that her partner's family might not see her that way it would be different.

No-one would claim any other relationship in which the person was this controlling was healthy!

Basic respect does not mean you get to police other adults’ identities, relationships, or language until they fit your worldview. It means accepting that your daughter is an adult, her partner is a person, and neither of them exists for your approval.

And boundaries are not “I get to decide what everyone else’s relationship means.” Boundaries are about your own behaviour: what you will do, what you will not do, and what contact you will or won’t have. They are not a licence to control other people and call it self-respect.

You do not have to agree with everything in someone’s life to be civil to them. But if you repeatedly tell your daughter that her partner is unhealthy, delusional, a lie, a cult problem, or proof of social contagion, then the issue is not that other people “won’t respect your boundaries.” The issue is that you are being disrespectful and want freedom from the consequences.

And having read this whole thread, the sheer intensity of your anger about something you plainly do not understand, including terminology you still cannot get right, is far more revealing than you seem to realise. Pick a book from non-transphobic aisle, it won't bite you to learn a bit about what you hate so much.

You might learn something about the people you hate so much, and if you really believe this is “severe mental illness”, then compassion would seem a more obvious response than contempt that you are just showing with apparently even pride.

If they're honest most people don't really see trans identified people as their 'gender identity' they see their sex. That's why they're constantly getting 'misgendered'.

I’ve been in the same situation (although in my instance my eldest daughter was dating a trans woman).

As parents surely the key thing is that our children are happy and that their partners are kind, sane and hopefully solvent. And in return, kindness is not a big ask.

You can make a thing of this and it sounds like you will but you stand a good chance of completely alienating your daughter and her boyfriend. And if your principles and opinions are really worth more than your relationship with your daughter, you go for it!

I would be worried to OP, however you do not ever need to be the one who rips the family apart. You can be polite and respectful to your daughters partner without compromising your beliefs.

If your daughter pushes you (or more likely is being pushed by her partner) to do and say things that are against your science based beliefs, just stick to your guns and do not be bullied, you do not need to ever be disrespectful. If this causes tensions then it will be your daughter causing them.

I don't think that I have ever needed to explicitly refer to any of my daughters boyfriend as men. You can easily get round the pronoun issue.

But they will push and push, just stay calm and be polite, and hopefully it will fizzle out.

@ziggadee any sensible response to @AidaP at 17:52?

I’ve clarified I'm not angry, just confused and concerned.
Honesty and reality seem lost in the need to affirm lies. I have also acknowledged the intoxication of new and exciting relationships. That does not mean they are healthy.

‘Confused and concerned’ is not a magic eraser for everything you have already said.

If you describe your daughter’s partner as a lie, a cult problem, mentally ill, socially contagious, and evidence of civilisational decline, people are going to conclude that you are angry and hostile, because that is exactly how you are speaking.

@AidaP https://genspect.org/the-cult-connection-part-1/

I've not read all the posts, just a couple of pages, but I thought I would throw in my tuppence-worth. I too thought your daughter had brought home a male partner (as TIM is male and TIF is female - such confusing language). Anyway I have understood that your daughter has a new TIF girlfriend and is therefore is most likely gay/same sex attracted.

Firstly I would relieved that her partner is a TIF as that means there is less chance of controlling behaviour and there is no risk of pregnancy compared to a male.

Secondly I don't really care how anyone "presents" outwardly, I am more interested in their health, wellbeing and fit in with our family/values. Also whether they are kind and able to support themselves financially/equally.

For me, physical health is a big issue. I said I wasn't interested in marrying my own DH if he continued as a smoker - why would I commit my life to someone who was actively choosing to harm their own health? So unfortunately the healthcare aspect of trans is what I would have a problem with in your situation. Young women who take testosterone suffer severe long term health problems - bone density, heart issues, vaginal atrophy/pain (within 5 years of starting), incontinence etc. It all seems cool and inclusive to young people now, but getting older is not funny and actively aging ones own body for "cosmetic" purposes seems very self destructive. It's not like a surprise illness that arrives out of the blue and you end up being a carer because that's what we'd want someone to do for us - but on the other knowing you are almost certainly going to end up as a carer from the very beginning due to that individual's own choices is a very different beast .. obviously you probably can't spell that out to your DD directly without repelling her, so if it were me I wouldn't address directly and try to focus on what she wants from her future - travel, career etc.

There is also mental health. I live with 3 neurodivergent close family members. Sometimes it is like living with an emotional raw nerve - I think I have PTSD to be honest from all the emotional turmoil. It is on occasions borderline abusive behaviour. I had no idea what I was signing up for when thinking about having a family and whose family I would be joining... People threatening to harm themselves are not easy to live with. Without mentioning the trans issues maybe just draw attention to wider family dynamics which your DD might struggle with long term?

Yes, I’ve read it. And?

Reading one ideological source that confirms your existing prejudice does not make you informed. It just means you have found a website that tells you what you already want to believe.

I have read arguments from multiple sides. You, by contrast, seem to have decided that material designed to flatter your fears counts as “reality”, and anything else is lies. That is not honesty or independent thought. It is just confirmation bias with a moral pose.

Neither affirm nor deny is my mantra.
I try not to give it any airtime or attention whatsoever.

Although I totally agree with your perspective of 'we have to challenge this madness', I have accepted that DC in their 20s simply will not listen to us (boomer TERFs) on the topic. They really will cut us off. We can only hope they come to some level of sense themselves and that is mildly more likely if we are still in contact on reasonable terms.

Sorry you are experiencing this.

OP I’d find this very hard too because if your DD is a lesbian but is with someone who believes themselves to be male, then to her partner your daughter is having to say something fundamentally untrue about her own sexual orientation.
Your DD is also having to deal on the deepest personal level with someone else’s extremely rigid ideas about sex stereotypes in her relationship. Those stereotypes as we know from centuries of history have not been kind to lesbians. I hope that whether it lasts or not, your daughter’s friendship circle is as open to accepting her as same sex-attracted, as they may be to her believing that gender is more important than biological sex because a healthy relationship needs a peer friendship circle around it, but crucially if it doesn’t last she will need them.

@Slothtoes thank you.I really appreciate your response. It is far more articulate than my aired concerns.

I’d totally accepted my daughter as a lesbian. She knew that.
I bloody well admire these women they are tour de force and I feel the same about gay men.

This trans/sub culture/fetish stuff is the next boundary we are being expected to just accept.

Not sure if you have read this @AidaP
www.womensrights.network/post/a-pluralism-of-engagement

Thank you to everyone who contributed. I have read and listened to all views. I will probably just read and think for a while. I’m not disappearing just thinking. I really hope the links are read and considered https://www.womensrights.network/post/a-pluralism-of-engagement

it’s not like she’s a heterosexual girl being somehow cajoled into a same sex relationship. she’s already same-sex attracted so i don’t think this is a big deal, it’s just a bit weird.

you are always going to find differences of opinion with those around you. this is just one example.

Honestly, I really do think you should just get your head around this and try without being harsh here not to be a dick about things. Your opinion is not hers & she will be attracted to whoever she is attracted to, end of. It only becomes our business when our kids are being treated badly by a partner. Be nice, be accepting, it’s not going to hurt you & if you make something of it then it will hurt you & potentially for a long time. It may not last but alternatively it may, ultimately it doesn’t matter how they identify & all that counts is that they are a decent human. Judge them on that & that’s all really that counts.

Perhaps you have not read the OP's posts with a view to understanding what it is that she is actually objecting to?

If you read the OP’s posts, it is the expectation of acting as if she, OP, believes someone can change sex by the daughter demanding that specific language is the only respectful behaviour from the OP.

All the rest of what you mention is pretty much sparple and not really relevant to what the daughter has said is expected from the OP. The OP has stated quite clearly that she would be accepting of this person as her daughter's partner.

What she is objecting to is the demand that she, OP, act as if she believes that this female person has changed sex when this is not materially possible.

Perhaps you should consider your own biases and how you interpret the OP's posts.

OP I’m sorry about the hard time you’ve been getting on here. Your daughter’s relationship is going to be a minefield of cognitive dissonance for her as a lesbian, so of course you’re worried for her happiness and wellbeing. She’s lucky that she will have you to talk to and to support her when she needs that.

OP, I really feel for you.

Lots of parents struggle when their dc bring home partners that we know without a doubt are very poor choices. But you get added pronouns and righteous indignation.

I would say, gently, that dd's choice points not just to the girlfriend having mental health problems (an elective double mastectomy is a huge sacrifice to the cult of trans), but also towards dd having some perhaps previously unrecognised mental health struggles of her own.

There's no one good way to handle this, but with love and support hopefully either the gf will detransition, or dd will grow tired of servicing the level of narcissism necessary to support a partner's supernatural gender identity.

I really do think you should just get your head around this and try without being harsh here not to be a dick about things. Your opinion is not hers & she will be attracted to whoever she is attracted to, end of. It only becomes our business when our kids are being treated badly by a partner. Be nice, be accepting,

That. You're making this relationship all about you. It's not.

I don't think people can change sex. But I'm not a dick to people who are transitioning. One of my favourite colleagues has had the full surgeries. It makes me wince, but they're so happy and a really good person.

My cousin's son lives as a woman. Their partner was born female, and is living as a man. It boggles my mind, but I'm finding their extended family relatives antagonism and refusal to even see them, really awful. My cousin and her husband struggled hugely, as it goes against their religion as well as their instincts, but they have worked through it to a degree and have a warm relationship with the couple, even if underneath it, they're a bit lost. The siblings seem okay with it. But the rest of the family, IMO, need to get a grip. The way they talk about them is horrible.

So yep, in short, whatever your own beliefs and feelings, don't be a dick to your own child and the person they love.

Your relationship with your trans relative doesn't just depend on how you behave. If they decided that your "good relationship" with them depended on you enthusiastically affirming them (as has happened to me with my son) you might find it a little more challenging. Yes, you could go along with that, but would it really be your choice, or would you recognise that you were being coerced? I can assure you that I love my son, but that doesn't prevent him from distancing himself from me and DW because he doesn't accept that we can have a different worldview.

It is precisely coercive IF the OP's daughter makes the relationship dependent on the OP behaving as her daughter demands.