Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

[BlueLegume]

Good morning all. I am normally rooted over on the Elderly parents threads. Just as I thought life couldn’t get more difficult it has. A week ago my adult daughter told us she was in a relationship with someone who identifies as male. This person was born female - daughter troped out the ‘gender assigned at birth’ nonsense. She has utterly ripped the family apart as she clearly has drunk the kool aid and cannot understand our concerns.

She has a great job, we are normal family where she says she has always felt safe and is loved.

Any advice welcome navigating this. Happy to answer questions but I will caveat this post with the following:

I am a sex realist. I hate the term gender critical.
I do not buy gender ideology. I think it is a term being used to expect society to accept trans etc off the back of the hard won rights for lesbians and gay men.

I do not believe anyone can change sex.

The ‘be kind’ mantra is a weaponised term to justify the nonsense.

Advice welcome.

@BlueLegume
"But she isn’t she is with a biological female saying she is male. What a bloody riddle"

Yes! See my post 15.25. It had a happy outcome, in the end. Although i don't envy you...it will all right....honestly, you've got to see that it will, for your own sanity and wellbeing. What a riddle, indeed. Xx

@JustSawJohnny I can see you make good points. I am not angry at my daughter.

I am angry at this movement that has no debate and actually uses that phrase as their mantra.

I am so tired of this need to make sure everyone feels included even when they are pushing ridiculous boundaries. I have read and taken on much of what you have written and will add it to my thoughts. So thank you for responding-I did not come here to be told I was right I wanted ideas and advice to navigate and that is good.

If you read the OP’s posts, it is the expectation of acting as if she, OP, believes someone can change sex by the daughter demanding that specific language is the only respectful behaviour from the OP, is my read of the situation.

I don’t believe the OP is demanding a say in the daughter’s love life.

Thankyou @Oneearringlost so pleased for that outcome.

Guess I am concerned she has got involved with some already on the medical path and very active in the movement to ensure they are only referred to as a man.

In essence my daughter seems to have been attracted to some she saw as female - she now seems to be shifting her own description of her sexuality to meet the requirements of the female identifying as a man describing herself as bisexual when the partner the FtM person describes themselves as trans queer or gendered something I cannot remember.

I think the problem here is between beliefs and facts. The OP is dealing with facts - I agree with her - a person riddled with innate female cells is not a man - she can tinker with the externals, but not become a man. She can choose to behave like a man (however that behaviour might be defined) but she cannot be a man.

But - her DD holds a belief that this is not so. Bonkers of course, but that is not the point. What matters is maintaining a relationship with her DD that allows the DD to stay connected with her so that the OP can be there to pick up any pieces that might fall from this young woman who has been in a pickle about deciding her sexuality (different from gender of course) and needs people around her who will be supportive. This need not involve asserting that black is white, but simply being polite and kind to her DD's chosen partner.

Correct @Helleofabore no demands have been made by me. Only by my daughter and that seems to be that I accept the lie she is with a man when she is a woman.

I am angry at this movement that has no debate and actually uses that phrase as their mantra.

So don't let it win and take your daughter from you, OP.

There will be a way to navigate this where you get to keep her and she gets to know you are there for her no matter what, even if you fundamentally disagree.

Maybe take some time to rage and come to terms a bit. it's all so raw right now.

Keep raging here if you need to - just don't take it to her. No good will come from it at the moment.

We are all honestly trying to help.x.

Acceot her choice of partner or don't , just like your parents had to do

That's the scary thing about all of this @BlueLegume, people of both sexes using male main character energy to destroy the value of actual women (by wanting to be one when they are not, or not wanting to be one when they are). And expecting the rest of us to just go along with it. So very, very sad.

As others have said, I think the only option is to concentrate on the person your daughter loves, try and ignore/rise above all the noise around them...it's a compromise for sure, but hopefully it'll be enough to keep your relationship intact.

Yep. You need to decide what is more important to you. Your daughter or your beliefs.

Your daughter has not "ripped your family apart"...

She is an adult who has chosen a partner she loves.

The relationship might last or it might not, but you need to avoid causing unnecessary drama or you will just push your daughter away.

You are perfectly entitled to your gender critical views but what you can't do is try to force your daughter to hold the same view or decide who she dates.

Equating transgenderism with a disability or heath condition is rather offensive to disabled or chronically ill people.

If you read the OP’s posts, it is the expectation of acting as if she, OP, believes someone can change sex by the daughter demanding that specific language is the only respectful behaviour from the OP.

It is not that OP will not 'accept her choice of partner'.

I’m raging at the moment as a young woman I know has travelled to Europe on her own for a radical mastectomy. It’s an evil, evil ideology, I understand your rage and fear for your DD.

I would suggest that you separate the cult/ideology from its victims.

Your DD’s new partner is a victim. Even if she campaigns enthusiastically, she’s a victim. Even if she encourages others with tales of how great her mastectomy was, she’s a victim. Culpable, but a victim.

Keep your campaigning and correctness in the campaigning sphere, and in your home welcome your DD’s new friend with concern for her wellbeing.

Don’t comment on it, the same way you wouldn’t comment on any other self harm or eating disorder.

I realise the pronouns thing is a problem, but you can get over that. Try and avoid pronouns, use her name, apologise when the other pronouns slip out- not because you’ve done something awful, but because it’s something that upsets her. Much like you’d generally avoid discussing the steak you had last night with a vegan,

It’s not the worst thing in the world to take into account what upsets people we are with.

But I feel for you- I will be biting my tongue with my young friend. But she is not the right person to express my issues with. Neither are your daughter and her trans identifying friend.

Just use the they/them pronouns then

So thanks for all perspectives. I am grateful for most some not so and that is not about people disagreeing it’s the narrative the trans ideology is somehow something we just accept when it is built on lies.

I read this recently. It sort of plays into how I am convinced this trans agenda is so dark https://www.womensrights.network/post/a-pluralism-of-engagement

I was at a funeral a few weeks ago and sat ar a table with a young trans man and her boyfriend ie a straight couple. This person was clearly female and in fact used the ladies. She revealed a few things over the next few hours which demonstrated that she has a huge trauma background. She seemed very vulnerable and her boyfriend was doing a lot of looking after her. I can't believe that anyone is taking her seriously.

@Arran2024 thank you for that. the thing is we are not taking any of this seriously we are affirming lies. If you get chance - it is a long read - please check out the article I linked about A Pluralism of engagement at 16.01 today.

It is a ‘thought experiment’ based on trans disability being a thing. Think the next movement being people identifying as disabled and the catastrophic impact that could have on actual disabled people.

It is a sobering read.

So the couple you were with can you explain the dynamic I am confused. If that is not too much to ask.

We seem so wrapped up in acceptance of lies we have sleep walked into a dystopian society.

This is so difficult. I think @LadybirdsProcessing\s core point is really good, but I think you are really really going to have to focus on Not Going There too.

I am ND and I feel that you may also be too? Or perhaps just have similar traits in that you find the thought of not telling the truth at all times really hard to bear. It feels inauthentic, like 'not being yourself', and almost physically impossible - but you can teach yourself to do this and honestly, it starts to feel ok. It's not that you are lying - your daughter knows what you think - it's that you are choosing where to tell it. (TBH this has been good for me as a general skill haha)

If I were you I would be self-soothing/-controlling with the point that @VikingLady made:
"Id probably be NB if I was 14 now, just to take myself out of the whole mess."
Try and view it from this lofty historicist perspective. It doesn't change the sadness but it makes it less personal. This is not really young people's fault (with some reservations), and not DD's GF's fault. She's looking for a lifeboat - I think very few women would have their breasts removed unless things were very, very bad for them, even though you disagree intensely in terms of your diagnosis of what, exactly, the bad thing is.

To build on what @LadybirdsProcessing said - in every interaction I'd force myself to say something upbeat, positive, trusting or open. "LOVE your trousers GF" :That's a really good point GF." "What shall I watch next on TV, I've come to the end of my drama". "God, I'm so happy the weather has turned, I was honestly getting a bit depressed."

I have noticed that when there is some positive communication, the conflict necessarily becomes less dominant. One can feel it taking up less space/time, pushed out and down by the positive relational things. It's one of those annoying slightly CBT 'wellbeing' things that turns out to be less bullshit than the rest true. One's own mood is better and so is theirs and, crucially, it's another way to show that while you won't change - you haven't changed.

My other self-soothing mechanisms would be to remind myself at all times:
*DD hasn't been forced by the Kool Aid to change herself - she is a lesbian and she is going out with a woman, whatever she herself believes.
*By the same token, you know that the GF is a woman so forcefully think of her as a woman at all times. Don't engage with any thoughts of your own or conversations with the girlfriend that don't fit with that truth. Equally, don't allow her to bring up anything to do with Sex - you wouldn't talk about periods or whatever with your DD's girlfriend, don't talk about her moustache.
*If she were going out with someone non-trans who had odd views, you would also be having to bite your lip. You would. It would be horribly uncomfortable but you would force yourself to do so to avoid a crisis point. So dont' allow your justified sense of being socially/politically under fire as a SR to make this any more significant than if your DD's partner was, say, pro-Brexit or homophobic or conservative-religious.
*If you make this a Me or Them issue, you will have given Them what they want and you refuse, absolutely refuse to allow Them that power.
*The only thing that is permanent is Change.

I am gender critical but I honestly couldn't get worked up over this. What does it matter who your adult daughter has a relationship with? As long as they treat her well I don't think this is the drama you are making it into.

To the people suggesting that the OP should compromise or lie to preserve her relationship with her daughter:

Do you think that retaining sex as a meaningful categorical variable is important and that gender ideology is pernicious? The OP does.

Do you think lying about important stuff is a good idea? - I don't and I don't think many people do (although opinions vary widely on what counts as important).

Do you regard people who lie and bend on matters of principle (to them, not you) as trustworthy and dependable?

If you were the OP’s daughter would you value your mother's insincere, emotionally coerced compliance with your demands about language as proof of love and loyalty or would you keep upping the ante, because by conceding on the original point of principle she has devalued her own currency?

Good Point

Maybe it's more like your daughter has a new religious partner and your daughter insists you hold hands and say Grace and thanks to God at the table before the meal. This makes you uncomfortable as an Unbeliever.

I suppose you can do one of two things- say to your D how uncomfortable you feel lying about something you believe or don't believe and would she be willing to skip the Grace part (maybe the new partner could bypass it at your place) OR just go ahead and say it and see it as part of the compromises you will make for your D to be happy ?

They met at a school for moderate learning disabilities- they both work but I would say that both are vulnerable - she has extra vulnerabilities. I felt that it was like a costume she was wearing to protect herself from something.

I agree about the identifying as disabled. My town has a popular music venue and when the acts aimed at the young emo audience play, suddenly there is a big queue of girls with blue hair and walking sticks. My daughter has a learning disability, epilepsy and autism, and I am heavily involved in the local disability community and I find it sad.

@Rainbowchicken clearly not read the thread - if you had there is no drama just concern.

Mainly about my daughter being in a relationship with someone with a lot of mental health baggage which rather than having been addressed as such has been affirmed with lies.

Secondly and nothing to do with myself-are we not just allowing this cult like ideology to permeate our society. It is not healthy.

I'm GC but don't really understand what the problem is. You don't have to believe her girlfriend is a man. As long as it's a healthy relationship I don't see the issue.