Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

[BlueLegume]

Good morning all. I am normally rooted over on the Elderly parents threads. Just as I thought life couldn’t get more difficult it has. A week ago my adult daughter told us she was in a relationship with someone who identifies as male. This person was born female - daughter troped out the ‘gender assigned at birth’ nonsense. She has utterly ripped the family apart as she clearly has drunk the kool aid and cannot understand our concerns.

She has a great job, we are normal family where she says she has always felt safe and is loved.

Any advice welcome navigating this. Happy to answer questions but I will caveat this post with the following:

I am a sex realist. I hate the term gender critical.
I do not buy gender ideology. I think it is a term being used to expect society to accept trans etc off the back of the hard won rights for lesbians and gay men.

I do not believe anyone can change sex.

The ‘be kind’ mantra is a weaponised term to justify the nonsense.

Advice welcome.

Supporting someone doesn't mean agreeing with them.

If my daughter began a relationship with a married man, drug dealer or someone that I believed would manipulate her, I’d not stop loving my child but she’d soon know that I wouldn’t welcome them. If she thought I’d welcome them with ‘open arms’ she’d be very mistaken. Her choice would be if she loved and respected me, she’d have the choice of how our relationship would continue. Not me.

Edit…my Dd is only 4 so I’ve a few years to go yet 😁

Please ignore. I am sorry OP I had mistakenly thought this was a new thread and never noticed all the pages. I obviously posted without having rthft.

I am very sorry you are going through this. I see some people have given very helpful advice.

If you can possibly stay calm, welcoming and friendly, while also neutral by saying ‘they’, I hope that will give her space to not dig-in in defence of her new girlfriend.

No problem @ScrollingLeaves

You are right lots of advice and I have made it clear I have taken it all in.

I can do all of the things you suggest but I cannot accept the presentation and expectation that this is her boyfriend. Societal chaos has caused this ridiculous situation.

In light of the IOC ruling that only biological women can compete in female sport I am assuming they will be up in arms that I presume this also means only biological men can compete in male categories. I can only assume the cohort of women identifying as men will be up in arms - said with tongue in cheek.

Essentially we know that trans women are now not women.

I understand what you're saying but I wouldn't do it. Words have meanings. If we agree that certain words are now meaningless, what do when we need a word to convey the now-lost meaning?

Is it possible to say things in a way that makes your non-meaning clear to people who haven't caught up with your position on this? You say "Sam can help you with that, she's over there" and they go over there, see a man and wonder where this Sam is.

And why would anyone choose to use language with no meaning?

The comparison with religion works to some extent. I'm an atheist; I respect that some people are strongly committed to their religion. It is fundamental to their 'identity'. If I'm introduced to a priest, I will not call him Father. He's not my father and, in any case, I didn't like mine so it's not even a mark of respect.

I have had occasional need to explain my position to trans people and, to date, none have taken great offence.

Getting along with people is one thing, but parroting things they believe when you don't is different.
To use the religion comparison, if I (I'm agnostic) go to a wedding/funeral/whatever in a church and there are prayers, I don't join in with them but just sit or stand quietly.
If someone says to me, 'I praise God/Allah/Waheguru/whoever for my health' I smile and nod and may say something like 'Well, it's good that you're feeling better.'
In neither of these scenarios has someone ever grabbed me and demanded I pray, or that I say, 'Yes, it is God/Allah/Waheguru/whoever who gave you back your health.' No one has ever threatened to end their relationship with me because I do not think or say things like 'Praise God'.

Someone demanding that I refer to a woman as he or him, is quite different. I don't really believe that people can't see that.

TRA-speak right there. TRAs are the only ones obsessed with genitals. The rest of us know that male and female bodies are different in many other ways, and also that male/female affects so many things in life, from who is expected to do the cleaning to who dominates in board meetings and who commits the majority of violent crimes.

But go right ahead and show who you are by going on about genitals.

Yes. How is it that the girlfriend in question, who says she is a man, cut off her healthy breasts if such things as breasts are supposed to signify nothing about ‘who “he” is’ and don’t matter?

And if she is taking testosterone she will be knowingly and purposefully using it to modify her genitalia.

Thanks @ImAnotherOne

I avoided engaging with the mention of genitals purely because I had not brought it up @ImImmortalNowBabyDoll had.

I’ve zero interest in genitals but I have grave concerns about removing healthy breasts.

Anyway I am expecting a huge rally against the fact only biological woman are eligible for female sports at the Olympics because clearly by the reasoning of the ‘trans women are women and trans men are men’ supporters this in their world is discrimination. Eye roll, obviously. God it is all so exhausting.

Wear what you like, date who you like but don’t drag those of us sane enough to understand biological reality along.

To clarify and hopefully lighten the mood - my last post said I have zero interest in genitals. Please understand that does not mean I do not believe in them!!

Some TRA will argue that the brain is the most important part of the body. So if the brain 'knows' it is one sex or the other, this overrides the rest of a person's physicality. These are the people who believe they have always been men or women, so no 'change' required, simply acceptance from society that some 'women' have the type of body we traditionally associate with males and vice versa. Hence we are told 'some women have penises'.
Others believe that sex can be changed. That it is hormones that drive sex, and if a person has enough estrogen it will change their body to one that is more female than male. Vice versa with testosterone and the female body.
Others still believe that you can be one sex but a different 'gender', so that some people of the female sex see themselves as men, and that society should go along with treating them as such, because it hurts no one and makes the person concerned happy.
For the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe any of these things. However these will be the arguments your DD has grown up hearing, and are accepted as fact amongst her peers. And no doubt she believes at least one of them to be true.
Just as no one will convince you they are true, neither will you convince her they are not. My point, attemps from either side at 'convincing' in this debate is a fools errand. If you're on different sides from a loved one, the best you can hope for is that you tolerate each others views and avoid the subject as much as you can.

I sense this thread has come to a natural end.

At least for me it has on the very day science led evidence made the IOC declare that biological men are not women and do not have the right to enter female sports.

It would be helpful for them to also say that biological females cannot compete in male sports because they are woman and they need to be safe from men who have an advantage as described by the IOC.

The Girl Guides have also made their point this week.

As parents, especially any new ones, please do not be bamboozled by this awful ideology. Our children are precious. That baby boy or girl you gave birth to is just that. Not some made up new human. Spend your time nurturing them and let them flourish as they are. Tomboys be tomboys, but you are female. Effeminate men be effeminate but you are still a boy. Self expression can be wonderful it does not require medical intervention.

In all of this thread I have kept someone very important in my head to keep my feet on the ground in my emotional moments. Emma Webber. Mother of Barnaby Webber. If you use X please follow her or read her posts.

She is remarkable. She has made my worries seem so trivial. You will find her on X as MrsEmmaWebber.

Thanks to all contributors. I will possibly update later down the line

Thanks. Please don’t blame the parents though. You may think this would never happen to you because you’re such a great parent but that’s what I thought too. I will also leave this thread now.

I spent 13 years of my life saying prayers I didn't believe in and singing hymns to a god who doesn't exist, because if I didn't I would be punished (hit by an adult with a plimsoll in primary school). Going along with some pronoun nonsense for the sake of a quiet life is no skin off my nose compared to that.

That's your choice. For other people, having been hit with a plimsoll for not pretending to believe might have only strengthened their resolve not to lie or collude again.
Personally, I won't lie or collude. I do find it to be skin off my nose, and off the noses of any woman (or man) who doesn't agree with or subscribe to gender ideology and with whom I feel and want to demonstrate some kind of solidarity.

I find it interesting and, frankly, shocking how many people are happy to recommend that other people ignore their consciences.

How to miss the point completely.

Leaving my own thread @SugarPuffSandwiches never have any part of the human body been described as bits.,Ever.

You might not say it but it's commonly used language in some parts of the country, eg 'lady bits'.

I'd hope I would find it in myself to swallow my conscience as much as possible if I were at risk of losing my child because of my opinions.

If OP and her DD are sitting on opposite sides of the same debate and both absolutely believe they are right, there is going to have to be some compromising, like it or not.

Or rather, stay close or not!

Still threatening parents, I see.

Exactly, and if you're talking about getting a wash - "don't forget to wash your bits and pits" (as in armpits 😁)

I think it’s entirely possible for a gender critical parent to have a positive relationship with a trans child or trans child’s intimate partner without anyone having to compromise their integrity or beliefs.

What is needed is mutual respect for each other, including each other’s freedom to view the world differently. Dialogue (as opposed to opining) is needed to work out how to navigate the tensions so they don’t get in the way of the mutual love and support they can still offer each other.

And I know from experience that it's not easy, and it becomes impossible without mutual respect. As soon as someone demonstrates lack of respect by accusations of bigotry, the relationship is broken, and can't be formed again without honest communication. So it comes down to who is prepared to communicate honestly. The trans community generally (and there are exceptions) refuses to talk as soon as there is any difficulty, any difference of viewpoint.

Exactly. Very common in many places.