Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

[BlueLegume]

Good morning all. I am normally rooted over on the Elderly parents threads. Just as I thought life couldn’t get more difficult it has. A week ago my adult daughter told us she was in a relationship with someone who identifies as male. This person was born female - daughter troped out the ‘gender assigned at birth’ nonsense. She has utterly ripped the family apart as she clearly has drunk the kool aid and cannot understand our concerns.

She has a great job, we are normal family where she says she has always felt safe and is loved.

Any advice welcome navigating this. Happy to answer questions but I will caveat this post with the following:

I am a sex realist. I hate the term gender critical.
I do not buy gender ideology. I think it is a term being used to expect society to accept trans etc off the back of the hard won rights for lesbians and gay men.

I do not believe anyone can change sex.

The ‘be kind’ mantra is a weaponised term to justify the nonsense.

Advice welcome.

THIS!!!

In SPADES!!!!

In this case, @BlueLegume 's DD will need to calm down from her transactivist script to listen to & respect her mother's opinion. Dealing with difference is not a one-way street.

This is difficult. I’m also a sex realist / gender critical, but I think if you want to maintain relationship with her, you’re going to have to find a way to skirt the issue.

That doesn’t mean compromising your own beliefs though. I would: refer to the partner by their name rather than their gender, change the subject to safer topics and wait it out, see what happens. It might yet “blow up the family” if she won’t accept that as a strategy, but I’d make sure my words and actions were consistent, moderate and kind, so that if things DO escalate, I knew it wasn’t down to me.

I can imagine it would go down well, or be seen as neutral, using "they" for the TiMs in my life. It would be a stark contrast to everyone else using "she" and it would be obvious that I was making a point.

Arrgh, too late to edit... "I can't imagine," of course

You can be gender critical and your daughter can believe in gender ideology. It doesn’t have to ‘rip your family apart’ or destroy you and your DD’s relationship. So OTT! If the person she’s dating is a nice person and treats her well, that really should be the end of it. It’s two opposing political beliefs at the end of the day. No one in your family is actually being hurt or suffering here (apart from your self-imposed suffering it seems). You think a difference in political opinions should be more powerful than blood, love and family?! That’s insane

Do you expect her to date a trans woman or non-binary person because she’s made it clear she would in the past? If it’s just because she’s a lesbian then I don’t think that makes her any more likely she’d date a trans woman than a straight woman would be to date a trans man (not very likely). I’m a lesbian and i definitely wouldn’t date a trans woman. Even the most pro-GI lesbians I know have never dated a TW and I’m almost certain they never would (although they’d never admit that!) despite the fact they claim TWAW

I said woman who identifies as a man - a 'trans man' not a man who identifies as a woman. I wouldn't expect a lesbian to date a man.

It shouldn't be, but you would be amazed how many parents have been rejected by their trans-identifying children for failing to affirm them enthusiastically enough. Mine is still just about in touch but he won't acknowledge me at family gatherings, precisely because we have differing political opinions, and I know dozens of other parents in the same or similar situations over gender politics. Gender ideology encourages its adherents to reject those who don't agree with them. See also the hounding and cancellation over the last several years of people who spoke up in public.

Ah my bad, well in that case yeah that’s more likely. Although most of the lesbians I know that have dated trans men started out dating them when they identified as females then stayed with them after they transitioned

It isn’t about two conflicting ‘opinions’. It is about one person wanting those around them to lie in order to support their idea of themself.

I'm inclined to agree; I think most people want their parents' full approval and are upset when they don't get it, especially when they have made their "gender identity" their defining identity. It must be galling for our son to realise that we don't see him as our daughter when he so much wants to be looked on as a woman.

Good luck OP.

I just wanted to say you do not have to change your beliefs or understand the position of your daughter's chosen partner. This may well fizzle out quickly. Or may not. One things is for sure if you are open about disapproving she may not come to you to talk when/if it does fizzle out.

BlueLegume

I am also very sorry your daughter has changed recently, and sorry it seems she is being so aggressive in wanting to 'educate you'. I can see how frustrating that may be.

I just came here to say that I am in the exact same situation. Adult daughter (she’s 27) has dated girls for years and is now dating a trans man (born female, identifies as male). Has been through the top surgery and hormones. This has been very difficult for me and is far beyond the acceptance of her coming out as a lesbian years ago. Sometimes you just need to find someone else who is going through a similar situation, because no one else I know has a clue and it can be very isolating. Most of our family on both sides has been made aware of the situation through social media. I guess it shouldn’t matter but it really is difficult from a societal perspective, family dynamics, etc. And someone else here on this thread mentioned a much more important facet of this. This individual’s mental state should be of concern, and I really worry about my daughter carrying that burden. It’s good to have some company here on this site!

Check out Genspect’s www.beyondtrans.org I’m in a similar position and they give support to parents of adult children

You have my sympathy, OP. Genderism is a very dogmatic ideology and demands obedience from non-believers. Of course you’re expected to toe the line and respect girlfriend’s fantasy, while she ignores your belief in reality.

Let’s hope, as a PP suggested, your daughter’s attraction to her girlfriend may fade away if she continues to make herself appear more masculine. Till then, I suppose you just have to smile blandly and refuse to engage with any further demands.

Best of luck to you and DD. And indeed to GF when the damage she’s doing to herself brings the delusion crashing down.

This isn't a deep conundrum. There have been hundreds of responses trying to convince you that driving your children away for the sake of your own political disagreement is sooo morally right that it doesn't matter how lonely you might become. Or that, because it's the right thing to do, they'll "see sense" if you austerely ignore them (after they've already cut you out, of course) which is sickeningly condescending.

Respect goes both ways and if you can't respect the identity of your children or their loved ones then they don't have any reason to respect your identity as their mother and no amount of ephemeral internet comments can fill that gap.

Just go with the flow and leave her to lead her own life.
She is living by her own principles, not yours. Whether you agree with them is irrelevant.
Love is in short supply ... let her enjoy hers where she may. She is doing no-one any harm.

It is impossible to see people in any different way from the way you see them. If someone demands that you see them the way they want you to see them, and make the relationship depend on that, it is coercion if the relationship is an important one (particularly if it is a longstanding one, such as parent-child). This is not "live and let live", it is "behave as I say or else".

This is not "live and let live", it is "behave as I say or else".

I don't think it is really.

I have a DGC who is transitioning - I can't say it makes a whit of sense to me, but they are happy and all I have to do is try and remember to use "they" which I forget all the time and they don't mind in the least. I don't really see that as any different from being asked to use Ms. They know I can't make head nor tail of it - I have told them this - but that I love them dearly and want them to be happy. I have to say that they are massively happier now they are under treatment (which they saved up and paid for) so why would I get on my high horse?

Whether a situation is coercive or not depends on the particular situation. Many parents do find themselves being coerced, or under pressure to act against their consciences. I am not attempting to judge OP's situation, which is different from mine.

I am pointing out that a unilateral reframing of a relationship may be coercive. We see this when, for example, a husband transitions, and demands (not necessarily in so many words) that his wife treats him as a woman and that she reframes herself as a lesbian. I have huge sympathy for David "Debbie" Hayton's wife, who has decided to stay in a relationship that has been changed drastically from what she signed up to when they married. That must be incredibly difficult.

She can't get pregnant so from that perspective excellent.

My Mother never interfered with anything and I never appreciated that till I met MIL who is always attempting to enforce her ideals on me.

The only time you can intervene is if something is illegal or they are at a stage where they are at risk of genuine harm.

I would not be happy myself but people can ‘ stew in their own juice’ as my Mother used to say.

It must be very hard for someone when the fundamental basis of their relationship is blown away in a moment.

But each person needs to find their own way through that.

In the OP's case there seem to be no coercion issues - just a clash of principles. If the DD's principles involved actively harming others then argue away; but she is just sharing her life with someone she loves, that is all. A lot of parents are less than delighted with their ACs' choices of partner, but it is not their life and they have to go with the flow and hope for the best. Keep the channels open, keep the love in the open and just be there to pick up any pieces that might fall.

Is the person she’s dating a good person in your opinion, from what you know of them? Have you seen evidence that he is mentally unwell? Does he treat her well? Are they happy? If the answers to all those questions are yes (apart from the mentally unwell one) then seriously I just don’t get what the issue is. I’m not saying it might not be a bit of a shock at first and won’t take some adjusting, but surely the important things for a mother is that their child is happy, and treated well by their partner? Think about the millions of parents with daughters in relationships with biological men who are horribly abusive and brainwashed by them. That is a truly awful situation to be in.