Adult daughter dating trans-identified male, struggling to navigate family concerns

[BlueLegume]

Good morning all. I am normally rooted over on the Elderly parents threads. Just as I thought life couldn’t get more difficult it has. A week ago my adult daughter told us she was in a relationship with someone who identifies as male. This person was born female - daughter troped out the ‘gender assigned at birth’ nonsense. She has utterly ripped the family apart as she clearly has drunk the kool aid and cannot understand our concerns.

She has a great job, we are normal family where she says she has always felt safe and is loved.

Any advice welcome navigating this. Happy to answer questions but I will caveat this post with the following:

I am a sex realist. I hate the term gender critical.
I do not buy gender ideology. I think it is a term being used to expect society to accept trans etc off the back of the hard won rights for lesbians and gay men.

I do not believe anyone can change sex.

The ‘be kind’ mantra is a weaponised term to justify the nonsense.

Advice welcome.

This. Or if they held other political views that you disagreed with.

If your daughter said "my girlfriend is having a breast reduction" or other surgical procedure that you thought was mutliating, how much discussion would you actually expect to have with them about that? You wouldnt because they're adults and they are making their choices. Talk about the telly or something.

But the OP has not said she will ‘misgender’ this person and I am well aware what the judgment said.

What have you made the assumption the OP will directly misgender this female person on? Or do you believe that someone using neutral language is also ‘misgendering’? That only using someone’s demanded personally chosen language is acceptable? Because that demand is not respectful at all.

Again the difference here is that the transman is demanding that everyone pretends her choices are great.

It's far more like a situation where the OP's daughter is dating an anorexic and everyone has to pretend that she's a healthy weight and join in with starving her, while they can all see her doing more and more irreversible damage to her body.

This is a very good article, thanks.

It struck me yesterday as I was wandering about that, with hindsight, I wish I had tried to get my daughter on her own for a discussion about why she had become so angry with me and whether there was anything I could do, short of changing my entire belief system.

There was quite a long period when she was angry with me. I didn’t question why, because I knew why, but a conversation might have made her think and might have helped us keep communications open, even while we disagreed.

Instead, I ignored her angry outbursts and hoped it would all go away. When it finally fell apart, there was nothing I could have said that would have appeased her and it occurred in the presence of her girlfriend, who I suspect had a hand in driving the changes, even if she was not directly responsible.

I don’t know if that situation chimes at all, but I would suggest trying to have calm conversations with your daughter, explaining why the situation makes you uncomfortable, if at all possible.

I’ve had some discussion with my daughter recently and she finally told me some things she felt I did wrong. I was able to explain why I had reacted as I did, which I suspect has taken some of the power from the person or people who are painting me as an awful person. There’s been no progress since, but I hope it has shifted things a little and opened up her mind to the possibility that things are not as black and white as she thought.

So try not to let it fester and try to keep open communication with your daughter in the absence of the girlfriend, if that’s possible. That would be my advice, if appropriate to your situation. I should have made more effort to do that.

You can leave off the disingenuous 'sorry's.
I never suggested that the OP should stand in front of her DD's partner and say, 'Hello, female person,' or, if the DD is talking about her and saying 'he', keep interrupting her and saying, 'You mean she,' which would be antagonistic and disrespectful. But if the OP and her DD are talking and the OP says, 'So how is X? Did she get that job?' or similar, because she didn't stop to think and mentally adjust her words, it would not be fair or proportionate for the DD to take umbrage or see offence.
Discussion over compelling people's speech is not 'crap'. Saying so IS disrespectful.

I don't understand this. Do you mean people are required to address or refer to bishops in the Lords in a particular way?

OP, I think you should protect your family. This is 100% not worth fighting over, and the worst thing you can do is feed the drama, which to be frank, you are doing.

If it is a silly rebellion then drop the rope, and take the long view. See the partner first and foremost as a person and judge them on their character.

Rebelling and rejecting your parents norms, is developmentally normal. I do think you could examine your need for control over your daughter’s choices generally, and why Disagreeing Agreeably is anathema to you.

@Randomuser2026 I agree about not feeding the drama and have asked her to get back to me when she feels ready. She has admitted she is overwhelmed by our reaction, which by the way came as she acknowledges from a place of love and concern, NOT control.

I have several adult children also am not needing to be schooled in the understanding of rebellion and rejection of parental norms. If anything all my kids have admitted we perhaps gave the too much rope at times and that there were many battles we didn’t bother with as we could see them for what they were.

This thread is not so much about parenting, letting go of control, not being able to disagree/agree it is about the sadness that the social contagion of trans has had on society, has now knocked on my door and how I navigate that.

My views remain the same. I love and cherish my daughter. I want to maintain a relationship but that relationship will look different whilst she continues to try and coerce me into a belief system, that a woman can become a man and that I should just accept it.

I’m not living in some echo chamber at all. I am however yet to see any coherent conversation about how people can change sex.

I will also add my daughter has very strong views on the big pharmaceutical industry being a racketeering stain on society. Yet she does not seem to have seen that medicalising a generation for life is the easiest money to be made. She knows how important medical ethics are but she is affirming mutilation under the guise of care.

At best I am taking the line for my own sanity that she has fallen madly in love/lust with the person and that is intoxicating. I used to have a boyfriend I couldn’t quite believe wanted to be with me back in the early 80s. I was so intoxicated I omitted to face up to some pretty awful flaws in his character. Eventually they became too much. Hopefully this maybe plays out the same but at the moment she is in full throws that this person is male, she here’s has gone from identifying as gay to saying she is bisexual. So lots of questioning and confusion on all side. I will always maintain a relationship however I won’t be coerced into a lie. So our relationship will look very different for a while.

Cosmetic surgery as a female to remove healthy breasts because you believe you are a bloke is a MH issue.
Just because you have suffered Mh problems doesn't give you a free pass to be rude and obnoxious.

“What makes the two things different is quite simply that they are different”

Both involve people who are claiming to be something they objectively are not.

The false claims they are making have a negative effect on others.

If they are different, you will be able to explain coherently in what way they are different.

Please do so.

@PriOn1 thank you. I absolutely agree with your last post.

Honestly @SJaneS if you can explain why they are different I am very open to your explanation but I do think that if you read the comments on another thread actually dedicated to the article in question you might want to read the views of a brilliant poster who is actually disabled and is being impacted by these people now identifying as disabled in real life. The post went up at 9am this morning and the poster is GloiredeDijon.

It is an excellent post.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5505512-5505512-a-pluralism-of-engagement-a-thought-experiment-on-trans-rights-using-the-analogy-of-trans-disablism?reply=151178401

There’s no advice that can be given here because you aren’t willing to move from your position. It has to be you that moves on this because you have precisely zero input into the relationship choices your adult daughter gets to make for herself. Your choices are exactly 3:

1. try to accept your daughter’s partner for who they are, open yourself up to growth and maintain the best relationships you can with your daughter and her partner.
2. keep your opinions to yourself/lie if you have to and remain polite to your daughter’s partner. You will be able to maintain a relationship with your daughter, but it may not be in the best terms.
3. continue being offensive to your daughter and her partner. Continue to act like she’s done something dreadful to you personally and act like you should be able to dictate her relationships and then wait for her to inevitably cut you out of her life.

Your daughter’s life is her own, she hasn’t done anything to you and hasn’t ripped apart your family. It is your behaviour that has done that.

No. They don't. I don't think it is comparable.

@Angelf1sh so basically shut up and put up is your advice. And as long as we all agree to do this we continue to acquiesce to the goal of changing society which is the goal of queer theory.

There’s no advice that can be given here because you aren’t willing to move from your position. It has to be you that moves on this because you have precisely zero input into the relationship choices your adult daughter gets to make for herself

This. She's an adult, and you may not approve of her choice of partner, but she just like other adults in a relationship get to make their own choices and don't take well to their parents wading in and making it clear they disapprove.
Also you're just spewing out links to articles when you hear a different view, you're not listening and know where you stand, (fair enough) so not sure what you want to get out of this thread as it just seems like a way to say stuff like "cult!" "mutilation" "idealogy! etc. Kind of like an online version of those religious people in the middle of town that come at you trying to "convert" you .

People who support trans can’t be swayed, just like you can’t on your beliefs.
I won’t say on which side of the fence I sit
as it is a very emotive subject (for both sides of the fence)…
If it helps maybe except that your daughter is bi-sexual, Treat her partner as a human being and just except that they are who they are. Maybe agree to use he and him pronouns for your daughters sake even though you are firmly set in them still being a she.
Sometimes we have to put our feelings aside and pretend for the sake of our loved ones…. And better your daughter is happy with a trans male than in an abusive relationship and unhappy.

Maybe agree to use he and him pronouns for your daughters sake even though you are firmly set in them still being a she.
Sometimes we have to put our feelings aside and pretend for the sake of our loved ones….

This is the crux of it though.
The OP is not 'firmly set in [the partner] still being a she.'; she IS a she. Saying otherwise for her DD's sake is mentally tiring. And, if the DD is saying a relationship with her is contingent on her using wrong pronouns, it is coercive control.
Also, putting feelings aside and pretending are, or can be, two separate things. I have experience of family members/friends of friends etc who I don't much like but have/had to spend time with sometimes. I can be civil and ask them some pleasantries, offer them tea etc, for the sake of harmony. That's not the same as pretending I like them if they or someone else asks, which is the equivalent of using wrong pronouns for this DD's partner.

EDITED to add bold

Update to those posting who have clearly decided I’m the bigot/problem etc. I haven’t ‘spewed’ anything but well written and thought provoking pieces. You just don’t like them so make me the problem. That’s exactly what this trans ideology has done under the weaponised banner of ‘be kind’. Placards wishing death to TERFS are not being kind.

I have no intention of breaking my relationship with my daughter. I’m just addressing it’ll be different as we have always been very close and honest with each other.

Thank you to the posters who might disagree with my opinion on the whole trans debate but have given some thought to their advice. I appreciate that.

To those who have sympathy. Also thank you.

To those so ambivalent that this is cool and just crack on. This is about love and concern for a situation it’s not about control - which I have stated several times but you’ve chosen to shout over me.

I do wonder if this situation had been that the partner was a biological male presenting as a woman and if I’d aired concerns you would be quite so vocal.

The world is full of people whose life choices I do not agree with. That does not stop me getting along with them.
Just make this new partner a cup of tea and be pleasant and welcoming.

Regard them as mentally ill.

By being pleasant to them you are not buying into their life choices or negating your principles, you are simply being civilised.

Just do this, it will probably fizzle out.Don't do anything to help it along if you dislike the partner.

Yeah don't go along with the retoric, they need to accept you have a different view point to them.Hopefully your daughter will see sense.

Bishops, as members of the Lords, get to force their personal beliefs on all of us.

The rude and obnoxious ones are those eliding people like me with those having cosmetic surgery.

There are plenty of procedures I would never consider for myself (Brazilian butt lift for one) but that doesn't mean those choosing to have them are mentally ill.

Don't all members of the HoLs force their personal beliefs on us? None of them is elected.