Transwomen - pseudumenopausal symptoms due to hrt - asked to approve work policy

[GrimDamnFanjo]

I have to comment on a paper that’s come for approval. It’s a policy regarding menopause at work.
theres detail regarding the experience of black women, women with disabilities, trans men and those who identify as non binary and a line that transwomen may experience pseudomenopausal symptoms due to taking hrt.
is this true?
is this any different to anyone having side effects for drugs they take or am I missing something?

The reason your GP suggested tapering off oestrogen and progesterone is that taking exogenous oestrogen means that your chances of an ischaemic stroke are 10x those of a man who is not taking oestrogen. Likewise your chances of a Venous thromboembolism (VTE) like a Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT)in the calf or a pulmonary embolus (PE) are 5x higher than those of other men who are not taking oestrogen.

The reason the GP suggested stopping oestrogen is because taking exogenous oestrogen means that your chances of an ischaemic stroke are 10x those of a man who is not taking oestrogen. Likewise your chances of a Venous thromboembolism (VTE) like a Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT)in the calf or a pulmonary embolus (PE) are 5x higher than those of other men who are not taking oestrogen. Either stroke or PE may lead to death.

Holding what line?

HR will be concerned to ensure an employer is not leaving itself liable to claims and tribunals. No sensible employer would weaken their legal position to try and appease employees.

So while they may wish to dress up policies to sound more user friendly, at root these are written with the law in mind.

The policy doesnt need to go into all this, but trying to write anything daft and counter to the law would be ill advised.

Policies on maternity, pregnancy, and menopause all relate to female employees only. There need be no mention of gender identity - trans identifying females would be covered, males wouldnt.

Company could have a separate policy related to GR if they want.

I think if it’s about coming off meds you need to be careful as to be fair to the whole workforce lots of drugs have side affects coming off them including anti depressants.

Why have black women been mentioned specifically? Is their experience of menopause different to that of white women or brown women? I’d be asking that.

I would wonder if they did actually mean Transmen rather than Transwomen. I would clarify that with the author.
The OP says, theres detail regarding the experience of black women, women with disabilities, trans men and those who identify as non binary and a line that transwomen may experience pseudomenopausal symptoms due to taking hrt.
So no, they mean transwomen and their 'pseudomenopausal symptoms'.

If that was they case, then they wouldn't be including it in the Menopause Policy.

What I am saying is rather than simply saying "this is not the law- what are you doing?" you put your point respectfully.

1. Identify the reason that there is a menopause policy is because of the female reproductive system.
2. Then define menopause as a function of the female reproductive system in the policy.
3. Then identify the people that have a female reproductive system as women and transmen.

This way you don't engage with the idea that transwomen have menopauses and you haven't had to say no.

If the TG women at work kick up a fuss want to be represnted you can suggest they can write policy on Transitioning at work.

I've no first hand experience of course but would be surprised whether any of the men who take synthetic female hormones in order to alter their appearance will plan to ever top taking them, certainly not until very late indeed in life.

There is, to be fair, a serious HR issue in cross sex hormones and gender. The females taking testosterone will have pseudo menopausal symptoms. I youngsters in their 20s with joint pain, fatigue, incontinence and brain fog who should fall under any menopause policy but don’t becaise
tge men are so fucking noisy and attention. Seeking all the time.

so you could be inclusive and accurate, and potentially do some good by encouraging these young women to give up the muck and get some counselling

I like this idea, possibly with reference to the need to cover hormone treatment not relating to conditions of the female reproductive system elsewhere?

A reminder of how long these discussions have been happening.

This letter from Angela Douglas back in 1977 is something to remember, apparently some ‘women’ are more superior to us ‘gennys’ because they are free from menstruation and we are becoming obsolete. Remember this was before a growing number of male people claimed to have female body processes such as female puberty, periods and menopause.

(reminder that a genny is a term for a female donkey too).

(The tweet below linking it also has an article from Germaine Greer which is also a very good reminder.)

https://x.com/hennieinglis/status/2031067162975117536?s=46

The text reads

Dear Sister,

In regards to the Sandy Stone controversy: genetic women- Gennys-have never had to suffer the discrimination, self-hatred or fear that a transsexual must endure and survive in their lives. Genetic women are not ridiculed as severely, killed, tortured and arrested simply because they are
transsexual, as are transsexuals. Genetic women have many rights, in comparison to transsexuals, who have
none.

Genetic women cannot possess the very special courage, brilliance, sensitivity and compassion-and overview-that derives from the transsexual experience. Free from the chains of menstruation and child- bearing. transsexual women are obviously far superior to Gennys in many ways.

As some of you have discovered. because of the severity of the genocidal attitudes we must deal with all of our lives, many transsexuals have learned how to fight without giving any quarter or showing any mercy.

Genetic women are becoming quite obsolete, which is obvious, and the
future belongs to transsexual women. We know this, and perhaps some of you suspect it. All you have left is your “ability" to bear children, and in a world which will groan to feed 6 billion by the year 2000, that's a negative asset.

Transsexual and veryproud,
Angela Douglas
Berkeley
Reprinted from Sister August-September, 1977

Here is a tweet that links to a clip from an early UK TV show with men discussing how they are women .

https://x.com/Jonnywsbell/status/2030798915423887413?s=20

"1973: Transsexuals smugly declare: "we chose to be women, transsexualism is the tip of the iceberg, sex is fluid, and birth certs must change"..
2026: They played the long game and won, biology is erased, dissent is crushed and women's rights are gutted...mission accomplished..."

Playing the victim since 1977.

As well as being totally ignorant of the indignities and violence women suffer on a daily basis.

Well that makes a lot more sense.

I don't think anyone is surprised that Onepostwonder decided to pretend it was because he was 'entering the age of menopause' 😁

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths these men will go to to pretend that they're women, when they don't like women at all.

All you have left is your “ability" to bear children

😆

highlighting this post 👆

Such a minor talent, it's no wonder all these Governments aren't concerned about declining birth rates...oh wait!?

It's ridiculous, isn't it.

Job Description: Adult Human Female

Woman's CV: populating the planet since time began.

Mr Transwoman: wearing fishnets

If you were Onepostwonder's GP who had concerns about his health and taking drugs that could harm how would you approach it.

Remember GP insists that it's transphobic to insist he is male - he insists he is biologically female. If the GP decides to talk about sex, they run the risk of being reported for being transphobic... So to appease men like onepostwonder who are behaving in this manner, how can the GP protect themselves and their patient in this climate. This is why I have previously used the example of a doctor treating a trans patient in reference to the SC ruling before because if sex doesn't mean sex they are put in this awful position of being at risk of being culpable if they harm a patient who is prepared to lie so much it leads to self harm and they are also personally at risk if they don't go along with gender from a career point of view (which puts a whole load of other patients at risk because this doctor is actually a good doctor doing what they should be in terms of recognising the health risks).

The GP is effectively going to sell coming off cross sex hormones to a cohort of men who don't take no for an answer and are not willing to engage with sex in the only way possible by saying "oh well if you come off the drugs you are being like a woman" even though women of that age are going onto the drugs!

It's a lie to deal with men in total denial. And it's yet another lie that actively harms women in the process.

None of this is ok.

Yes. This is a clever response. The assumption that this is what's happening is, as as far as I can see, unsupported and unsubstatiated. Acting on such an assumption could be interpreted as discriminatory toward trans employees.

Your duty is to protect yourself and the organisation as this could have repercussions for both. In view of the recent SC judgement the organisation might be well advised to seek specialist legal advice.

Cover yourself first and foremost and ensure it's done in writing.

https://x.com/hennieinglis/status/2031067162975117536?s=46

The text reads

Dear Sister,

In regards to the Sandy Stone controversy: genetic women- Gennys-have never had to suffer the discrimination, self-hatred or fear that a transsexual must endure and survive in their lives. Genetic women are not ridiculed as severely, killed, tortured and arrested simply because they are transsexual, as are transsexuals. Genetic women have many rights, in comparison to transsexuals, who have none.

Genetic women cannot possess the very special courage, brilliance, sensitivity and compassion-and overview-that derives from the transsexual experience. Free from the chains of menstruation and child- bearing. transsexual women are obviously far superior to Gennys in many ways.

As some of you have discovered. because of the severity of the genocidal attitudes we must deal with all of our lives, many transsexuals have learned how to fight without giving any quarter or showing any mercy.

Genetic women are becoming quite obsolete, which is obvious, and the
future belongs to transsexual women. We know this, and perhaps some of you suspect it. All you have left is your “ability" to bear children, and in a world which will groan to feed 6 billion by the year 2000, that's a negative asset.

Transsexual and veryproud,
Angela Douglas
Berkeley
Reprinted from Sister August-September, 1977

Reading this again puts me in mind of this recent interaction with Alexandra Billings on social media.

Self published video from Alexandra Billings here .

https://x.com/gaynotqueer1/status/2032811484271817092?s=46

Then the chilling and menacing response to women saying 'no' here.

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2032639781658833142?s=46

And yet, some male people wonder why female people don't show how distressed they are when a male person enters a female single sex provision, or inserts themselves in a menopause/puberty/menstruation/breastfeeding discussion or one about female people's needs. And some male people wonder why female people discuss the fawning reaction.

"As some of you have discovered. because of the severity of the genocidal attitudes we must deal with all of our lives, many transsexuals have learned how to fight without giving any quarter or showing any mercy."

The hatred has been made clear to us for decades and yet, we are supposed to remain support humans for some male people.

This sounds alarmingly like Valerie Solanas in reverse.

There's some evidence that black women experience, on average, more severe menopause symptoms than white women. And also (especially in the US, where a lot of the research comes from) that they are less likely to engage with medical care or more likely to experience poor medical care. There's also some evidence that Asian women tend to have fewer symptoms, although there's uncertaintly about how much is genes and how much is diet and lifestyle - and therefore whether it translates to women with Asian heritage but living elsewhere.

So it may be worth mentioning. But only if there's an explanation of why it's being mentioned and how the policy may need to be adapted. And it also needs to be clear that these are averages.

If a trans identified man taking cross sex hormones is experiencing symptoms of menopause then surely they would be de-transitioning? HRT in women is to relieve perimenopause symptoms (I take estrogen, progesterone and testosterone). A male taking cross sex hormones is taking them to introduce some female characteristics. I can only imagine the only time that might mimic menopause is if they stop taking them? Which makes it part of the transition/detransition policy and support surely?

Thanks for clarifying.

In that case, yes, this needs to be made clear. And if stats apply only to the USA (eg around black women receiving poorer medical care than white women), do they belong in this report?

women [...] have never had to suffer the discrimination, self-hatred or fear that a transsexual must endure and survive in their lives. Genetic women are not ridiculed as severely, killed, tortured and arrested simply

Oh, so the three women a week killed because they are women don't count.

These men are misogynistic porn-addled bastards.