Row breaks out over event’s single sex policy: bbc

[WarriorN]

Row breaks out over event's single-sex policy https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8jxek8w8m0o

I'm not in Brighton so may have missed developments, but are they no women's groups or even proper adults in Brighton to complain about there being anti social, intimidating, anti woman groups harrassing vulnerable women.

Is this 2026 or 1826!

Is it worth writing to their MP. Although I wouldn't know which one of the three it would be!

Brighton Pavilion: Siân Berry (Green Party)
Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven: Chris Ward (Labour Party)
Hove and Portslade: Peter Kyle (Labour Party)

Sian Berry didn’t even condemn the TRA attacks on Filia. She implied it was their fault for holding the event in Brighton, so good luck with that.

Well not surprised and Labour would be just as useless.

I wonder if Sister Salon (I think that is what they are called) could do something as they are a Brighton based group.

I'd be interested to see. I saw footage of her being removed. I'm not sure what she'd make of the involvement of the trans-identified woman though as she is quite against that ideology in all its forms.

I came across the article by chanceby the Council leader praising women in Brighton.

Was going to add a comment about this event and the disgusting behaviour by terf watch and has somehow got myself in a loop so am not registered to comment.

I'm going to try and sort it out later, but if any one else thought they might like to tell the Council leader about how women in Brighton are being harrassed and banned from venues because of men, this is the link https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/25918665.council-leader-bella-sankey-power-brighton-women/

the Black women, the Jewish women, the Muslim women, the trans women

So offensive.

Should say the trans-identified women.

I'm not sure what she'd make of the involvement of the trans-identified woman though as she is quite against that ideology in all its forms.

What was the involvement of the trans-identified woman?

I complained to the BBC about the article, particularly about speaking to a shadowy group like Terf Watch and giving them a platform. They responded to me today to say that it's fine because Ms Hayes directed them to the group and suggested they ask for a comment.

I find this extraordinary. They are not taking responsibility for their own editorial choices but rather blaming someone else. They didn’t for example acknowledge that this group could be seen as problematic, while giving it the right to comment.

I have responded - will see what they say.

She helps to facilitate group walks that they run. She was the one subjected to the reddit post linked to earlier, her response is here.

Sisters Heal have shared this post from a trans identified female they are supporting. As the writer has given permission for it to be shared I have posted it on here.

The motivations for male and female trans people using women’s spaces are so opposite aren’t they?

Males motivated by AGP, euphoria, seeking validation.

Females motivated by trauma and their undeniable female biology.

That is a moving statement. What horrific abuse.

I suspect feminists would feel empathy with the back stories of most women who decide to transition. It is such an obvious tell that mainstream transactivism is working for the patriarchy that it seeks to keep women apart. I think transactivists know all too well that transmen and women have so much more shared history than any woman has with a man who grew up with a homophobic father or a man who is turned on by stereotypically female clothing.

That’s from the Reddit thread where she was harangued about her choice to work with them, I think. It was vile.

Exactly that. Poor woman.

So many TiFs are trying to run away from the awful reality of being female, and from the treatment they know females get.

They run away. Men run toward.

Of course. Women who have been through rape and sexual abuse will be able to empathise with the person who wrote that statement.

Instead women are expected to ‘be kind’ and empathise with men feeling turned on wearing women’s clothes.

I hope whoever wrote that statement is getting good support from Sisters Heal and elsewhere. It’s a horrific story.

It's hard to imagine this kind of abuse. Being raped by your own father and giving birth as a 13 year old girl. No wonder she grew to hate her female body. I wonder how many trans-identified women have a background of sexual abuse. I imagine it's high.

I still do wonder how practical this kind of arrangement of single sex services is though. I think there is a high risk of women being triggered by male appearing women when they have a background of sexual violence. I also doubt many trans-identified women would want to attend as they are so determined to view themselves as men. Maybe she is quite early in 'transition' and still appears female. It seems to work in this one niche example but across the board I don't think it would.

Sadly lots of studies have shown that the trans people that are subjected to sexual violence are overwhelmingly the female trans people.

Its not surprising they don’t want to be women.

Also, sexual abuse experienced by trans identified males is going to be very, very different. Not that it’s any less traumatic, just different. Being abused as a boy or as a male in a gay relationship isn’t something women are going to understand.

Pregnancy and birth following rape from your father isn’t something a man will ever be able to empathise with.

There is no sense in force teaming these survivors with very different needs.

Agree, and there are sensitive ways forward with this, so long as there's accessible facilities available to all it's fine. Different times, different groups. The thing is, I suspect many TiFs would be encouraged that there were, and find this increases access. I've often seen comments from TiFs that suggest their consideration for others and their awareness of others is head and shoulders above those of men. Less likely to be the rahhhh want it all, kill everyone odd kind of response that is so very frequent.

Where do you draw the line though? I think if it’s a single sex org then biological sex is where it should be. Otherwise it becomes an org for women who present as feminine.

I think it is practical if the trans person is open about being female, the other women are made aware beforehand and there isn’t any pronouns nonsense

I think there is a significant difference from a woman who dresses masculinely and a woman who has taken testosterone and had surgery to give her the appearance of a man. The former is unlikely to be triggering, the latter very well could be.

I agree there are specific circumstances where it could work. It’s interesting you mention pronouns because I’ve noticed you seem to have made an effort to avoid referring to this woman as she/her or a woman. That’s your prerogative and I don’t believe in policing language, but would there not be an implicit pressure on women to go along with such convoluted avoidance of pronouns to avoid offending the trans-identified women? The whole thing is a minefield. The woman in her post was quite clear she sees herself as a ‘trans man’ so would she actually attend the group if other members used female pronouns for her?

With appearance, I’m in the camp that thinks women can always tell. The small hands, the neat little beard, and the name tag that says ‘Noah’ or ‘Kai’. Even though they’ve taken testosterone they don’t have that male aggression. The sense of entitlement and mansplaining tendencies just aren’t there as they’ve been socialised as female.

It would have to be made clear to any trans ID female that they may well get called she / her and that pronouns won’t be policed.

As a previous poster said, trans men are female and so much more aware of how their attendance could be triggering. Im not saying it would be easy but I think it can be done on the understanding that everyone in the room is female and shares that unique experience.

That poor young woman.

Transmen are so much less obvious and demanding than transwomen. And you can usually (always?) tell - jawline, height, hands, feet, the physical structure of the body.

I don’t imagine they will get many trans-identified women attending if they get correctly sexed pronouns. I can’t speak to socialisation but I’ve certainly seen some who physically ‘pass’ even if it’s uncommon. It’s less rare than it is for trans-identified men.

I’ve met one where you’d never know she wasn’t a man if she didn’t tell you. Not saying it’s common but it’s an eventuality that needs to be accounted for. I imagine the trans-identified woman in this case is early in transition or doesn’t ‘pass’ as a man.