What's the deal guys?

[shadesOfTeal]

I don't think this post is going to last long but what's the deal with hating trans women so much? I've been a women for 13 years of my life since 18 and it's never been a problem. Suddenly I'm not only talk of the town but also an evil man stealing everyone's rights away from them? I wasn't much of a boy as a kid anyway but. I just wanted to ask like what's the deal? Why do you hate the idea of me existing so much? What have I personally done to you that's been so bad? I feel like I need to be careful with my words because it'll be easy to accuse me of all sorts but I've done no harm to anyone. If you want to ask a trans woman some honest questions then please do, I don't usually talk about it in my day to day life and that, I'm pretty down to earth and will help you understand as much as possible. But I'd like to ask the people that hate me so much, can we ever get along? Please don't assume I'm what the internet and the media says I am though, I'm not like that at all! I just want us all to get on and I'm sick of having my life debated every 5 minutes.

just heard a lot of rumours about mumsnet is all. Thought I'd see what it's all about...

Assuming you mean specifically the Feminism: Sex and gender messageboard, then it's a place where people (mainly but not exclusively women) who understand the difference between sex and gender go to have conversations about it and share news. That's all. It's not scary and we don't hate you. Though we would be pleased if you would stay out of women's spaces.

just heard a lot of rumours about mumsnet is all. Thought I'd see what it's all about...

I recommend the parking threads... they are a hoot.

you may be the most patient woman on Mumsnet Marie

My user name kind of has a meaning. Someone on this forum posted AI that included a phrase "stuck in a genderless void clutching our bananas" which made me laugh. I was sexually and physically abused as a child, including being trafficked. I didn't want to be a girl because that meant I was basically a sex toy for sadistic men and teenagers. I wanted to be a boy but then decided I didn't want that either. I was at the age when kids really think they can be, e.g., a dragon. I identified as a few different inanimate things for years and am extremely dissociative so really didn't relate to being human at all. So genderless void seemed like an apt user name.

Where are posters saying that what you went through didn't happen or that it's all made up?

There are many reasons why people are vulnerable and need specific provision for their safety and wellbeing.

Single sex provision is for females. I know lots of lovely males who would be safer using the female provision, but they don’t, because it isn’t for them. I understand that exclusion adds an additional upset/ challenge for males with trans identities, but this doesn’t justify the removal of single sex provision - which is the outcome of including transwomen.

Over the years, several transwomen join the board with the intent of trying to understand ‘the hate’ or to educate women that they aren’t the problem.

Most posters don’t hate transwomen, they don’t see transwomen as ‘a problem’ they just want single sex provision to be for females only. Transwomen are, by definition, are male and do no more welcome in female only provision than any other male.

😁
I'll say it again if I have to - if you're genuinely scared and confused, shadesOfTeal, I'm sorry you feel like that and I wish you well with sorting things out.
But this is not the place, and we are not the people.

I don't think this post is going to last long but what's the deal with hating trans women so much?

I don't hate you. I don't know you. I don't hate any person who has a trans identity purely because they have that identity. If someone breaks the law, it doesn't matter how they identify - breaking the law is breaking the law.

I've been a women for 13 years of my life since 18 and it's never been a problem.

If you are a biological male, you have never been a woman, as that requires being female (and not in the way that Dr Upton uses the word - I mean an actual female using the Universal Biological Definition).

Suddenly I'm not only talk of the town but also an evil man stealing everyone's rights away from them?

If you use single-sex spaces for female people, they are no longer single sex.

I wasn't much of a boy as a kid anyway but.

If you are a male who has not reached adulthood, then you were a boy as that is all that is required. I am sorry that you felt like you were not 'much of a boy'.

I just wanted to ask like what's the deal?

Human beings cannot change sex. People with trans identities should obey the law and not use single-sex facilities, spaces, sports teams, etc. that are for the opposite sex.

Why do you hate the idea of me existing so much?

There is no hate regarding your existence.

What have I personally done to you that's been so bad?

Have you used single-sex spaces etc. that are for the sex that you are not? If you have, then that is bad and breaks the law.

I feel like I need to be careful with my words because it'll be easy to accuse me of all sorts but I've done no harm to anyone.

Have you used single-sex spaces etc. that are for the sex that you are not? If you have, then that harms people who need single-sex spaces.

If you want to ask a trans woman some honest questions then please do, I don't usually talk about it in my day to day life and that, I'm pretty down to earth and will help you understand as much as possible.

No, I don't have any questions thanks. I have spoken to enough people with trans identities IRL.

But I'd like to ask the people that hate me so much, can we ever get along?

Please see earlier replies regarding 'hate'.

Please don't assume I'm what the internet and the media says I am though, I'm not like that at all! I just want us all to get on and I'm sick of having my life debated every 5 minutes.

Unfortunately, the last few years have shown that women have needed to push back regarding the demands of Stonewall et al who wanted to 'go beyond the law'.

If you think that your point of view is ignored and you’re no taken seriously - well that’s one trait you share with women! I’m not 100% sure anyone is properly “heard” these days, as most discourse is point-scoring and bad-faith interpretations.

When feeling the world is against me, I don’t go and seek out a discussion with people I think hate me, even if that is erroneous.

And if you think we are being dismissive or rude to you, try being a “TERF” in certain spaces - I can assure you that you would be incredibly lucky to just receive a bit of mild exasperation and reassurance you’re not hated.

Cool, go and tell TRA Reddit that and see what response you get there

Why do you think the term pregnant people is attempt to include you?

Ah dear
you are not hated
you just are not a woman

what you are personally doing however is reducing womanhood to sterotypes, making it harder for women to excel in a patriarchal world. Obsfucating the differences that do exist ( biological ) between males and females . Guess that all gets people a little upset- but you know - if you don’t like the result of your actions, you could change your actions

If a male person is sick of his life being 'debated' because of the decisions that he has made, including supposedly 'living as a woman for 13 years', it is rather hypocritical because anytime a male person claims that they are female in any way and uses any female language for themselves, they are opening female people's lives up for 'debate'.

Because, like many of the male people with transgender identities that we have seen post on this board, I reckon that female people with transgender identities are irrelevant to them except when they are a useful resource.

That the term pregnant people was never about any male person doesn't seem to occur to some male people. I could be wrong...

Another theory I have is that male people with transgender identities see female people with transgender identities as women not men.

The truth is some hate trans women. Others appreciate the haters for doing the heavy lifting. Anyone can read just how deep the obsession with trans women goes in these threads.

They gravitate here so they can collectively speak their minds and hearts and feel appreciated for believing and saying what they know would send friends and family into convulsions.

I started transition over 40 years ago. To these folks, we're all and will ever only be the same single cell that divided right after conception.

Sex realists don't believe in social or cultural gender. They're essentially the same people who in the 80s who believed gays and lesbians just hadn't met the perfect opposite sex partner, or were possessed by evil spirits, and same sex attraction was an abomination.

Hi Teal. Firstly I'd say we all have different views on here, it's not one hive mind. I can only give you my view.

I don't hate trans people at all, or have a problem with you existing. You are an interesting part of the rich human tapestry!

The concerns I have are around the current version of gender ideology which has been around for the past 10-15 years.

The first is about women's spaces. Back when the trans issue just meant a very occasional fully transitioned transsexual using the opposite sex loo, this wasn't something I ever thought to worry about. But the current version of gender ideology seems to say that absolutely any male, transitioned or not, can use any women's space or service. I'm not personally that bothered about toilets, but I am bothered about my young daughters having a female only space; my elderly disabled mum being able to ask for a female career; women's sports; and women's prisons. I'm not overly concerned about the occasional fully transitioned trans woman as I'm assuming you are - I'm concerned about predatory men using the trans issue to enter women's spaces, and there's little we can do to separate these groups or tell them apart.

The second is about teenagers and very young adults starting on a medical transition pathway, in an environment where young people are being drawn to the idea of being trans outside of genuine gender dysphoria. Transitioning used to be something rare that adults did after suffering from dysphoria for a long time. I have no problem with this and I believe it's probably the happiest choice for a small minority. But now we've got young people medically transitioning who are autistic, or gay, or have a trauma history, or are just part of the "alternative" crowd trying to find their place in the world. I don't believe it's the right thing for most of these kids.

The best solutions I can see are that we keep women's spaces and sports for females only, but add in gender neutral facilities wherever possible, think about changing the men's team to an open team, etc, to make life as easy as possible for trans people while maintaining women's hard-won rights. And that medical transitioning is reserved for those well into adulthood.

Happy to hear your views on this, if you like.

No I do believe in social gender. It’s a constraint, a cage for many

but it’s social - it’s a response to the external environment. It’s not real.

and in the 80s we allowed people to be themselves, their whole selves , without any lies about being the opposite sex

much healthier

'They're essentially the same people who in the 80s who believed gays and lesbians just hadn't met the perfect opposite sex partner, or were possessed by evil spirits, and same sex attraction was an abomination.'

This is just more misinformation.

'They're essentially the same people who in the 80s who believed gays and lesbians just hadn't met the perfect opposite sex partner, or were possessed by evil spirits, and same sex attraction was an abomination.'

This is a flat-out lie.

That is really fucking homophobic.

@shadesOfTeal I can't help you cos I'm not your mum, I don't have a sticky plaster or a sweetie to make it better. You know what all the answers are. You just have to accept them.

Ah well, looks like @onepostwonder got the reaction and attention he was seeking.

Couldn't have the new poster getting it all!

The cotton ceiling, the boxer ceiling and Nacey Kelley's 'sexual racists' comment towards lesbians who would not sleep with biological males, is the height of homophobia.

The grim jokes at the Tavistock that soon there would be no gay kids left, is the height of homophobia.

What a load of rubbish. I was born in 1962, so i should know. I was not anti gay and was a participant in gay pride starting 1982.

what a massive generalisation.

you are not any type of woman, you are a man. Nobody in the eighties claimed to be of the opposite sex, the concept did not exist

🎶Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, guess I'll go and eat worms 🎶

It is just false to use as a generalisation as it has just been used.

There may be a group of people who think that, but it is not feminists and it is generally not the people on this board who think this at all. And yet, we have seen this falsehood rolled out in court cases as well.

All it shows is that the person making the statement either doesn't really understand what feminists believe, or seek to shame feminists though false characterisation.