What's the deal guys?

[shadesOfTeal]

I don't think this post is going to last long but what's the deal with hating trans women so much? I've been a women for 13 years of my life since 18 and it's never been a problem. Suddenly I'm not only talk of the town but also an evil man stealing everyone's rights away from them? I wasn't much of a boy as a kid anyway but. I just wanted to ask like what's the deal? Why do you hate the idea of me existing so much? What have I personally done to you that's been so bad? I feel like I need to be careful with my words because it'll be easy to accuse me of all sorts but I've done no harm to anyone. If you want to ask a trans woman some honest questions then please do, I don't usually talk about it in my day to day life and that, I'm pretty down to earth and will help you understand as much as possible. But I'd like to ask the people that hate me so much, can we ever get along? Please don't assume I'm what the internet and the media says I am though, I'm not like that at all! I just want us all to get on and I'm sick of having my life debated every 5 minutes.

I will stand by my puberty as being female directed rather than male.

I've never heard of a non-trans male shaped like me, or sharing the same social experience of puberty. As it is, my weight and height are absolutely tiny in comparison to the average. My sizes do not exist in adult male clothing (or shoes) to my knowledge, but I've never needed adult male clothing.

This isn't manipulative, this is my life. My experience.

You don't even see your own male thought process even when it's pointed out to you.

Women care about the effect we have on others. You don't. You only prioritise yourself. You're 100% male through and through. A woman would step back when asked to by the original group. You can't see it. Because you don't think like us.

You can't force yourself on us. You cannot force us to accept you. A decent person would accept this. Women would accept that. Women would step back. Your alpha male attitude shows you don't think like a woman or understand like us. And you have no idea just how obvious and transparent that is to each of us females.

You're shouting 'male male male' at me and I'm hearing it.

I understand it isn't about me. It's about your need to shout 'male male male.'

Good for you. Well done.

An -ology? then she'll know all about the facts about males and females and DNA and chromosomes and all that kind of 'sovereign citizen lingo' stuff.

A Zoologist, but I'm sure she's familiar the science around human sex, i.e. that it is binary, and that it is not possible to change from one to the other.

I completely agree with you about the insecurity and paranoia.

As far as the feeding, goes I think (can only speak for myself) it's because there's a strong need to challenge posters like this. Every time one turns up with these arguments, they think they're the first to do so! If they aren't challenged, they take it as agreement.

Just to add: seeing these viewpoints challenged so rationally is really useful if you're new to this board or this issue. It certainly helped me get my thoughts in order a long time ago. I don't think there are many platforms that let women discuss matters like this? Why is why TRAs are so angry about its existence!

Your Mum’s a TERF

I think I need to go back to basics here @onepostwonder what exactly is it that you think makes you a woman? What characteristics do we share?

I would invite anyone to arrest me and throw me in prison for womaning.

Again, you don't get it. It's about our right and need for our own identity away from yours. Your asking hens to accept you, a fox. It's never going to happen. And if you were decent, feeling like a woman and identifying as a woman should be enough without insisting you were female too and colonising every single identity and space we have. It's your stubborn refusal to consider us before yourself, that shows your male self.

There are none so deaf as those who don't want to hear.

As many wise people used to say.

Your a small male.

You had male puberty and remained a small male.

You are not the only small male as male humans come in all shapes and sizes

HtH

Btw, sex realism is important in medicine. Male heart attacks present differently from female's. I hope you think because you took cross-sex hormones that doesn't change your DNA or chromosomes and therefore illnesses will present like females. That could be incredibly dangerous healthwise.

Yes, no other small males have ever existed in the world 🙄
You are very special.
What a rock-solid case. Please, do enter our spaces.

It is absolutely manipulative to claim to have a female puberty when you are male.

'I've never heard of a non-trans male shaped like me, or sharing the same social experience of puberty'

That only male people with transgender identities who undergo the same medical procedures 'share' your experience does not make it not a 'male' experience. You really don't seem to have a strong grasp of logic and it is coming through in your posts.

That ONLY male people with transgender identities share your 'social' experience of puberty means it is a MALE experience only. Not 'all' male people but only male people.

And it is irrelevant what 'shape' you have. We have told you over and over again, having a female 'shape', artificially acquiring some female sex characteristics does not make you in any way a 'female' person. You are a male person who has acquired some female sex characteristics through your chosen medical procedures.

It is totally fucking irrelevant whether you wear female sized clothing and shoes. None of this makes you, or any other male person, a female person.

These things make you a male person who has undergone extreme body modification as an elective choice to fit an identity.

I'm not sure how others feel, but I really dislike the use of the term ' guys' for mixed sex groups. It has become so commonplace but its use really grates on me.

You're right - but sometimes it's useful to engage in 'Operation Let Them Speak'

On this thread, for instance, we had the OP instantly accusing us of hate, before we'd opened our mouths, and when one of us [me] suggested they should look for the support that they need [OP had said they were 'scared' and I decided to respond to that, just in case they were genuinely distressed] they said they were just 'messing'.

Then onepostwonder took over, and has revealed big gaps in their knowledge of the law, science, etc., and above all an amazing ability to sail on regardless when they've got things totally wrong e.g. 'legal fiction'.

Obviously somebody as convinced of their own rightness will not be swayed by anything said by a bunch of niche obsessive sex realists, but it is useful to have their inaccuracies and dismissal of awkward things like 'facts' and 'reality', in writing for all to see.

Threads like this are a record of the uselessness of interacting in good faith with posters who start off with the attitude of 'you're all hateful bigots', and anything we say is taken as 'Look - proof that you're all hateful bigots with niche obsessions!'

Maybe we need it to be said in an rap song:

The way it's been explained to me is the estrogen I've taken for over 40 years has been directed by DNA to activate the cells with estrogen receptors. The cells guided by androgen receptors had their impact lessened over 40 years ago.

The net result created a protective environment that brought my risk for heart ailments into the female typical range. Stress tests, blood tests and such have been female typical for years.

I agree @MarieDeGournay. And, personally, I am always hopeful (still!) that I might hear an argument from that "side" that is at least halfway convincing. Some facts and evidence. Proper engagement plus some acknowledgement of why women feel as they do.

Ever the optimist, me.

It sounds as if it must have been tough for you when your size and overall demeanour did not match up to 'masculine' expectations, but you cannot become a female if you are male. Your whole chromosomal make-up is male, and even if you are taking oestrogen your body's receptivity to that will be determined by your underlying sex.

Whilst you may be considered a good and sympathetic friend to the females in your life ( so are many gay men)...but that is not the same as actually being female.

Sex is significant in ways that we often don't imagine.

Oh, it's about size now. Does that make me at nearly 6 foot and a size 16 male then?

You are male, therefore by definition any of your characteristics are possible in a male body.

A small man is not a woman.

Still doesn't make you a female person.

Definitely.

Oh gosh, I've just had a flashback to when Butterfly thought a size 8 meant shoe size 😂

Puberty is extreme body modificaion. Agreed.