So Doctor “ Beth “ Upton is off to pastures new , leaving a large ongoing bill for NHS Fife

[RhannionKPSS]

Dr Upton is off to Australia it seems, after creating a toxic situation for women in NHS Fife, wonder if Dr Upton is going to be working in “ Gender Services “ down under ?

He said that he'd treat a woman who had requested female only care, which is a sexual offence. If I was in a serious condition then of course I'd accept him treating me. Don't forget he put in a complaint about an Alzheimer patient calling him the very friendly, caring, term, 'son'. He's a narcissist and beyond the pale.

I doubt the good doctor would offer to help anyway if he's not getting paid to do so. He seems entirely selfish.

There was one good outcome from the case is that it forced the GMC to change its listings policy on problem doctors.

Prior to this case the GMC issued a new name and ID number "sealing" the old history. (As some genius had decided that prior regulation issues would be left on the old name as they would be outing.)

When people (the press) started to ask questions they had to quickly amemd the process to carry any history over as it was an obvious loophole.

He would consider it beneath him. Iirc in one of those cases where he accused Peggie of neglecting a patient he was left with the patient to carry out the observations. The patient had someone to care for them but the task was a ‘nurses job’

Not read the whole thread but the case and him going to Australia may not be linked.

There are very few jobs for UK trained doctors at his level. At the time of the case he was an F3. A year long contract for those who have finished their 2 foundation years. (He was on a Foundation rotation in A&E when it all happened.)

Boris, perhaps motivated by Covid, designated all doctor jobs as shortage jobs, which means that they open to worldwide applications with no priority given to those already resident in the UK. Wes Streeting has tightened up rules around speciality training positions as application numbers had gone through the roof, but has otherwise ignored the issue. It means that doctors like 'Beth' at the start of their careers are competing for entry level jobs with doctors from overseas with bags of experience. The choice, for DD is insecure and poorly paid zero hours locum work or emigrating.

DD is also about to leave. About 25% of those who completed F2 in her deanery last August are in or en route to Australia. She already knows that 7 from her Deanery and six from her medical school will be working in the same hospital. Perhaps Beth as well.

In short this decision will not be about 'trans', but simply that Beth's special status was not enough to protect her from the realities of trying to build a career within the NHS.

I had made this point. Though Streeting has only just proposed ensuring UK doctors have priority again and even there I think it was only for 80% of jobs. He could have made the change immediately after the election. The BMA doesn’t see this as an issue - they think the problem is that the NHS don’t offer unlimited well paid training places to however many overseas doctors who want to come here.

Re Dr's from abroad - we also have to note the amount of students who can't afford to do 5 years of study in UK who now get degrees in medicine from EU (Romania and Poland I think are popular) because they don't come from wealthy families. Although I suspect they aren't the ones being given jobs with experience they would presumably also be classed as overseas Dr's?

That “poor wife” has agency, knows exactly what he is and has stood by and supported him throughout this shit show. She’s no better than he is.

Or perhaps she's a victim in all of this and finding it hard to make that first move out the door and to safety.

The reality is we don't know and she isn't the story.

She only need be aware that she is not alone, many wives have had to suffer the loss of their husband to the trans community and she can seek support and help whenever she's ready. And when that time comes, she'll be given that support and help without judgement.

Most who go abroad do so because they can’t get places here. They do count as international medical graduates and I am sceptical about courses where people can pass their medical degree without having sufficient local language to engage properly with patients. How can that be patient centred care? However, if they are British citizens they have a right to work here as long as they can pass PLAB.

It makes no sense to send expensively trained doctors overseas to replace them with those with only slightly better experience on paper. Students who cant get into uk medical schools may go to Malta, where they teach in English, but would not be "overseas doctors" if you gave priority to British nationals. My experience is that PLAB does not restrict doctors who are hard to understand. The standards required should be higher.

I agree, the level of English required of overseas doctors should be much higher.

For returning British medics trained abroad, their English should be fine but they will not have been taught to listen to patients if they were taught a course in English with Romanian-speaking population.

She may not be the story, but she’s not the bloody victim either.

1st rule of misogyny: women are responsible for what men do.

Read the trans widows threads then have a think about how much agency women in this situation actually have.

Maybe he is off the Isle of Man…

They refused the complaints due to the ongoing case i resubmitted mine after the case results and was told that it was on hold until a decision on whether an appeal would go ahead or not I've still not heard anything else from the GMC

Irrespective of the employment prospects of junior doctors in the UK, I'm delighted that he's fucked off - it means that the chances of bumping into him up here in NHSS while ill and vulnerable is zero. I have much sympathy for the patients of whichever country has employed this sanctimonious prick whose fledgling career has been built on lies and utter contempt for women.

I wonder if he’s flying EasyJet?

What in particular about being married to a trans person removes the spouse’s agency, more than finding herself married to any other sort of abusive prick?

You said it yourself. It's abuse. She's in an abusive marriage.

It's very very difficult for victims to extricate themselves from a relationship the moment the first red flag appears, and before they know it years have passed and this is their life now.

You said it yourself. It's abuse. She's in an abusive marriage.

It's very very difficult for victims to extricate themselves from a relationship the moment the first red flag appears, and before they know it years have passed and this is their life now.

HIS honesty IS in question as he undoubtedly fabricated claims that Sandie Peggie endangered patients. That it was a flat lie was confirmed as soon as the BHS Trust investigated, and could have been confirmed by witnesses at any time.

Had Upton really witnessed patient endangerment he should have reported it at once: not concealed it for over a year. The man is a liar, or one who does not prioritise patient safety (these are of course not necessarily alternatives that exclude).

As for YOUR honesty: calling a man who we know is a man “she” & “her” speaks volumes.

Read the trans widows threads and see if you can work it out.

How often would there be widespread condemnation of a woman leaving her abusive male partner? Sure you might get some complaints from his family who won't hear a word said against their darling, or from those who thought they knew him ("But he's always so nice!") but generally people would at least shrug and say to themselves that it's fair enough if she wants to leave: there must be more to it.

But with a transwoman partner I've seen the stories of women who've found themselves vilified for leaving their vulnerable/brave/oppressed partner who has finally been able to be their "authentic true self" only for his wife to leave. Never mind that she didn't sign up for being married to a trans woman, or a woman of any description/identity. Never mind that his 'coming out' will probably be the culmination of years of excusing and gaslighting: only a pair of women's knickers, only wearing a dress behind closed doors, only suggesting that they have sex with him dressed up, it not being a big deal, it not being fair on him when she won't accept his trans identity or this being her life now whether she likes it or not.

Only with transwidows do you get others polishing their right-on credentials by condemning the wife who dares leave, which absolutely does affect her agency.

The issue is not whether overseas medical school training is better or not. Some is, some isn't, and with the recent expansion of medical education there are question marks about the quality of some of the medical graduates that the UK produces. (One recent change is that merit has been taken out of the process of allocating Foundation places, whilst Foundation performance and references do not contribute to achieving a training place or a local hire job.)

Even still the quality of overseas grads, whether British citizens or not, can be worrying. Dd certainly came across one who appeared to have no medical education at all, whist others have had very little patient contact because they studied in a country without English speaking patients.

The NHS issue is that all applicants have to be treated equally. Both DD and Beth cannot compete with doctors offering 10 years or more of experience. The concessions on expedited family settlement means that entry level locally employed jobs will often attract several hundred applicants, some of whom will be seriously overqualified. The NHS also prioritises those with significant research and academic qualifications for specialist training places. (And would only have enough training places for about 10% of the cohort even if half of those places were not going to medics from overseas.) It is much easier for those who are able to take a couple of years off to prepare at a specialist college oversees or for those working in a London teaching hospital with a lot of research going on, than those working night shifts in Fife's A&E.

Australia in contrast puts a lot of emphasis on references and experience. They seem more interested in those who can cope with a busy ward, than how many times you have your name on a research paper. Both DD and Beth have done well to be accepted there. Weirdly the ultimately aim of many of the overseas doctors DD currently works with (and all the SHOs in the department where she is locuming are from overseas) is to get to Australia. She in contrast would like to stay in the UK. But because of the different recruitment criteria she has to leave and they have to stay.

The same may well apply to Beth.