Guidance for schools in BBC news

[WallaceinAnderland]

'The legally-binding advice for all schools in England also says there are "no exceptions" for single-sex facilities, including toilets and changing rooms, with single-sex sports also protected.'

Vast Majority of parents should be told if pupils question their gender

Absolutely! It is a total mess of confusion and contradiction. Trying to appease everyone, and in doing creating inconsistency and chaos.

What is kcsie?

The role of parents in transitioning their children really does require a lot more attention. There is always this implicit assumption that it is always totally child led.

That's not transitioning. And in this country the chances of this sort of medical error occurring is vanishingly small. Are you thinking of males like Caster Semenya?

Good summary of news reporting on this - https://ground.news/article/vast-majority-of-parents-should-be-involved-if-children-question-gender-schools-told_99492d

Labour MP. Professor Flint is a legend.

the document this is in - keeping children safe in education.

its the statutory safeguarding guidance that schools absolutely must follow.

there’s statutory musts and shoulds - musts mean staff face criminal prosecution if they don’t follow. There aren’t very many musts but one is for example, that teacher must immediately call the police if fgm is suspected. Not go and speak to anyone else. It’s an immediate call to 999.

the shoulds are all very serious and statutory.

so in some ways this is excellent. In others it’s problematic. As now children can formally transition under kcsie (most likely linked to the trial, but I think there will be more outwith the trial who just aren’t taking drugs.)

however, the very firm guidelines on single sex spaces will have a very big impact.

(actually, wider than we think; a friend’s daughter has been allowed to do rugby with the boys sessions as there’s no rugby for the girls - she’s absolutely passionate about it. This will mean schools have to provide more opportunities for all children in sports.)

yes absolutely

That is not yet in the document

Jeremy vine was an absolute mess this morning. The guy with the glittery beard was an idiot

Shoulds v musts explained very well by @myamplesheep(great name!) yesterday on this thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5489497-bridget-phillipson-says-no-teacher-should-be-compelled-to-use-someones-preferred-pronouns-in-an-education-setting?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

This is what I worry about. I know of a female child who is adopted by two lesbian women who says she is trans. Seems very unlikely that that is child led. What are the odds?

I thought I heard that they wouldn’t be allowed to wear opposite sex uniform? And sport segregation were safety was an issue as in wrestling or football is to be sex segregated but running or swimming is fine for a gender identifying boy to be in with girls and win the medals?

It does seem to be that children's single sex rights are (finally) thoroughly protected, but gender questioning children much less so. Although more than they were, at least the firmer line on this not being a decision a school can make is steps in a better direction. 'Justifiable risk of harm to a very small group' as the Streeting Experiment seems to be positing. I wonder if this is the supposed middle ground?

I've just listened to the Today Programme interviews about this. Thanks to the pp who mentioned them. The former head of Ofsted (Baroness Spielman?) was great at highlighting some of the concerns, e.g that children will be coached online by activists, influencers etc. on what to say to schools, e.g. that they feel unsafe, and then this will be used to keep parents in the dark.

And she also made a really good point about sports, that the guidance talks about sport needing to be safe but it doesn't memtion fairness, so you could, for example, still have boys running in girls' races.

The homeschooling bill is a bit worrying in a number of ways. There is a need to know that children are out there, to protect children from adults who won't provide an education or are keeping children out of school for the wrong reasons, and some parents and children sadly in situations where for the child's safety and protection they need to be in school and well known to the staff to safeguard. But this will be a very small number of children, and as always the bill will in fact creep to encompass a lot more in situations that aren't clear cut.

In particular it gives an LA the right to refuse parents the right to withdraw their children from a school if the child has SEND, and to insist that the child attends the school they name. As many children with SEND are now homeschooled because their placements broke down and the LA wouldn't/couldn't provide better or accept the child's need, or because the child became so distressed and unwilling to go in that the parent withdrew them for the child's safety and mental health - medication and actual serious harm can be involved - that's worrying power over parents. Particularly with the SEND white paper being sat on although consultation meetings are happening (without anyone being allowed to see what they're consulting on) which look like the requirement for local SEND classes created in schools by schools to avoid sending children expensively by bus to specialist schools. The creation of more distressed children with unmet need matched by LAs with their focus on cutting cost rather than meeting need and with the power to insist the child cannot be withdrawn by parents from the school of the LA's direction regardless of the effect on the child, is not likely to end well.

the problem is that all this is based on Cass.

Cass was problematic.

and medical evidence wanted the evidence which was lacking.

hence the trial.

its another horrific circular process.

the best thing to happen would be for Bell and Esses’ JR to go through but I fear that they will fail as the medical lot will want the evidence.

I completely acknowledge that for send pupils this is a terrible situation.

at the same time, Sara Sharif was murdered under the guise of homeschooling. This is why the gov are changing things

I Teach children in a send school. I think we as an LA are good with send though. I do know of successful situations where the child is still “at” school but stays at home accessing placements and online courses. We also have a very unique and flexible send school for children with extreme school anxiety.

unfortunately this may be the exception

In the case of young children I suspect it is the parents 100% of the time... either because of an unconscious desire for a child of the opposite sex; or because the child is showing signs of being 'effeminate' - if a boy; or because, like you suggest, they are using the child to provide social validation for themselves and their tribe.

J Vine R2 now

I’m catching up on the radio 4 coverage. It’s notable that the neu haven’t been interviewed. From my experience (around me certainly) they tend to attract more Labour activists. I don’t think we will hear as much from Daniel as we will from the other union leaders.

The pronoun thins is going to be actually hard issue

I can already imagine that some pupils with autism will not use preferred cross sex pronouns (it’s a lie) whilst others with autism will insist.

Amanda S ex Ofsted is very good in the interview.

Oasis spokesperson needs MNs toilets expert .....