Guidance for schools in BBC news

[WallaceinAnderland]

'The legally-binding advice for all schools in England also says there are "no exceptions" for single-sex facilities, including toilets and changing rooms, with single-sex sports also protected.'

Vast Majority of parents should be told if pupils question their gender

Today programme 8.10:31

General secretary of the Association of School Leaders was being interviewed. Absolutely brilliant interview I think about the guidance. Very sensible and measured, saying that they are used to having to deal with difficult things.

It is making a little cross though that it's taking the pack of cards toppling down for the BBC to start allowing sensible debate. 😭

Very very very true.

because of th way Reddit is set up it always creates an echo chamber and then people wonder why the real world is different.

absolute circle jerk.

I agree. The burden of responsibility teachers are asked to carry these days for things that should be outside their remit is huge. It's ridiculous. What I hope will happen is that heads will look at the guidance and think, "Stuff that, we'll just have a blanket ban on social transitioning". Because a blanket ban is easy to understand and easy to follow.

As for the rest of it, I'm hugely relieved. The issue of how schools deal with trans-identifying pupils is something I've followed closely from the outset, and I remember a time when a large proportion of schools and local authorities were adopting the insane Allsorts guidance, which basically advocated for allowing "trans" children to use opposite-sex facilities, including dormitories on residential trips. So finally we are moving away from that.

Caroline Flint is on GMB talking about intersex children whose sex cannot be determined.
Seriously?

I would very much hope that this guidance will mean educational staff would not feel able to make a decision to enable “social transition” without strong medical backing. If they’re acting on specific advice from a child’s doctor or psychiatrist that would cover their arse, otherwise they’re on very risky ground. Of course there are still some doctors who will blindly support children in this, but it does seem to thankfully be getting rarer.

Intersex children and those with complex severe mental health issues may well be one reason for the absence of a total ban. There are some circumstances where a child observed as female at birth may quite rightly transition to male at a later point when a DSD is diagnosed.

Quite. The point would be too that not only have the school ignored the existing rules, the government themselves have put this into their draft guidance - based on a long, long list of sources used in the appendix - and with the SCJ the chance of this being changed after consultation back to self ID into mixed sex spaces is non existant. The direction of travel is clear, and a school would need to explain why they ignored the previous guidance and what they intend to do next. The answer would be activism on the part of adults over child protection. (Also something against government guidance with the legal terms must and should).

Have the NEU commented yet? It has previously taken a very TRA line but I have seen on here that the current leader is more neutral/gender critical?

If there are children with DSD whose sex truly cannot be identified, at all, how many of these children in the UK will be in the average school at one time?

And how are their needs not met by discreet provision of a separate space? They're not a gotcha to subordinate every other child's rights. Likewise the whole 'stealth' bit. The guidance repeatedly says, no arrangements for one child can compromise the safety, privacy, dignity and comfort of another child and access to the opposite sex spaces must not be allowed.

In this country, in case of ambiguity, the necessary tests would be done immediately and biological sex confirmed.
If there was no ambiguity but there was an unobserved dsd, the next probable suggestion of a problem would most likely be at or post puberty.
This vanishingly rare situation shouldn't be used as an argument for changing pronouns for 4 year olds.

It should be a ban. Particularly at primary age. At secondary too no dc should be asked to aid another in a social transition.

If everyone sticks to sex based pronouns then it’s just a relaxed uniform code.

Vanishingly tiny numbers. 0.001%

to the al dsd is 0.02% the number you can’t tell at a glance and then didn’t check via dna is going to be practically zero.

Unfortunately there are activist headteachers, and parents, who still see this as a social justice/ inclusion issue who will still want to support social transition and who will see this guidance as permission.

Local authority school support and advisors, who schools may involve are largely captured ideologically and believe in trans kids and 'inclusion' as their only guiding principle. Including children's social workers, educational psychologists and safeguarding leads.

The only way to stop these people and the ideology that has infected their professions, is clear unambiguous legislation: children cannot change sex, and schools should have no involvement in supporting the recent unsubstantiated beliefs some people have about gender identity.

There is no reason for schools to be involved in this dangerous nonsense that a minority of people believe.

My prediction is that he is going to be very limited in his response, but supportive. Or the NEU will just make a statement. Like BP, he keeps cards close to his chest.

NEU LGBTQ lot had a conference last week; it’s worth looking at the type of thing they were talking about on their Facebook page

transgender Trend are keeping a thread record of responses, many of which still don’t get it

NSPCC are the most worrying imo, as they’re technically linked to government safeguarding processes.

their pages on “supporting LGBT children” are horrific and link to outdated advice and Scottish advice

https://x.com/transgendertrd/status/2022060259695800592?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Is that Caroline Flint, the former Labour MP, or Caroline Flint, the retired midwife? Or a different Caroline Flint I'm not aware of?

Screen shot

The NSPCC are completely batshit.

honestly, this is going to take a long time to get sorted. putting it directly in kcsie is brailliant - I’m so glad this wasn’t an add on which gives the impression schools can ignore it

more parents are going to have to kick up a fuss.

it does mean Ofsted will check policies on this. Policies will have to be in line with kcsie. And be ready for sept 26.

hence the pre release.

And yet all safeguarding training says to go to NSPCC. Especially if you’re not school based.

I suspect that some of the rationale for this guidance is down to the fact that the upcoming puberty blocker trial is going ahead and as a result there will be some children who will be 'transitioned' by the NHS and given PBs.

If they were being transitioned by one body ( NHS), but then not affirmed in schools that really would be a mess wouldn't it? And totally one of the government's own making.

Both this guidance and the upcoming trial both leave the concept of a 'genuinely trans child' untouched.

More comments from other sources:

I think this is true but also means there are going to be kids on the trials not allowed to use the opposite sex facilities in schools.

There is a section on living in stealth and how this is a safeguarding issue, but they are bloody creating the issue!

Just the concept of living in stealth should obviously be an ultimately psychologically disastrous position for a child to try and maintain.

Yet here we are with the NHS and schools supporting confused children to do it.

The key thing that this is out for consultation - which iirc doesn’t usually happen for kcsie

yes I had thought that if there is going to be a handful of children definitely transitioning they have to provide guidance there. But it’s very problematic for others.

and does legitimise children transitioning.

I can’t help worrying that these parents will home school. But that is why the gov is so determined to bring more safeguards into homeschooling (which the homeschooling community seem to hate, even the GC ones I know.)