Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GLP v EHRC judgement is coming tomorrow

1000 replies

DownhillTeaTray · 12/02/2026 14:44

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

Jolyon Maugham KC (@goodlawproject.org)

Listing in the Administrative Court for tomorrow not before 11am: read out of the judgment in our challenge to the EHRC Interim Guidance.

https://bsky.app/profile/goodlawproject.org/post/3meo6ow7ow22k

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
EasternStandard · 13/02/2026 13:21

lcakethereforeIam · 13/02/2026 13:13

Knowing the GLP they would literally spin it so it read ON 😁

Edited

😬 at these two posts

MalagaNights · 13/02/2026 13:23

MalagaNights · 13/02/2026 13:04

Thanks for this.

So is the judgement saying there could be a case for trans women to use women's facilities without it necessarily discriminating against other men?
But unless there were also single sex women's facilities this would be indirect discrimination against women?

So you could have a situation where there are:
Single sex men's toilets
Single sex women's toilets
Mixed sex toilets
And women's toilets for women and transwomen??

Good grief.

Remember when they told us how silly we were to go on about toilets all the time?

If this exceptional situation arose where there could be toilets for women and trans women but not other men, because there was also single sex provisions for women who didn't want to share with men.

How would they label these different types of toilets to ensure that women knew which were the single sex ones?

Also how would they know who were the transwomen and who were just regular blokes who liked using those toilets?

Not the main issue today I realise but I can't help musing on the insanity we've reached.

DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 13:24

Wow. There are implications for other tribunals that I hadn't realised. From P-t-d on trans Reddit:

This is a disaster.

Some lowlights.

Paragraphs 35-46 concern the work Regulations. It overrules Kelly and mentions that case by name in para 41.

Croft, which the Peggie judgement relied on, is no longer law para 50.

Inclusion of a trans woman in a female Space does make it mixed sex.para 52.
Use of unisex or gender neutral facilities is not outing for trans people. Para 73.

As I suspected the GLP were spinning with the message quoted in this thread. They left off the last sentence of the paragraph:

(For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants’ submission in this case it would still be labelled “women”.)

It goes on to note that while doing so does not give rise to a claim of direct discrimination by men, it may on a case by case basis lead to an indirect discrimination claim by women.

Which, with the paragraphs above on obligations to provide single sex spaces, effectively means that only after providing mandatory female spaces could employers then provide separate trans inclusive ones.

That is much, much less 'silver' than Maugham was implying. Tbh his summary is a hair away from a lie by omission.

This was a comprehensive defeat.

I am angry today.

Not least at the GLP.

Their lawyers weren't able to answer the judges questions on the human rights grounds and had to go away and submit in writing and by inference from the convention portion of the ruling failed to do that with sufficient specificity; they were leaning far too heavily on Crofts which I criticised at the time; and are now going to need to fundraise after having given away a chunk of the trans legal fund to 'allied' advocacy groups.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 13/02/2026 13:26

DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 13:24

Wow. There are implications for other tribunals that I hadn't realised. From P-t-d on trans Reddit:

This is a disaster.

Some lowlights.

Paragraphs 35-46 concern the work Regulations. It overrules Kelly and mentions that case by name in para 41.

Croft, which the Peggie judgement relied on, is no longer law para 50.

Inclusion of a trans woman in a female Space does make it mixed sex.para 52.
Use of unisex or gender neutral facilities is not outing for trans people. Para 73.

As I suspected the GLP were spinning with the message quoted in this thread. They left off the last sentence of the paragraph:

(For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants’ submission in this case it would still be labelled “women”.)

It goes on to note that while doing so does not give rise to a claim of direct discrimination by men, it may on a case by case basis lead to an indirect discrimination claim by women.

Which, with the paragraphs above on obligations to provide single sex spaces, effectively means that only after providing mandatory female spaces could employers then provide separate trans inclusive ones.

That is much, much less 'silver' than Maugham was implying. Tbh his summary is a hair away from a lie by omission.

This was a comprehensive defeat.

I am angry today.

Not least at the GLP.

Their lawyers weren't able to answer the judges questions on the human rights grounds and had to go away and submit in writing and by inference from the convention portion of the ruling failed to do that with sufficient specificity; they were leaning far too heavily on Crofts which I criticised at the time; and are now going to need to fundraise after having given away a chunk of the trans legal fund to 'allied' advocacy groups.

Edited

Hehe.

The GLP really have made certain other legal cases and appeals look much easier to win.

Thanks chaps.

ProfessorBinturong · 13/02/2026 13:27

Still reading, but I enjoyed this bit:
"The notion that an employer or anyone else is required to “police” the use of a lavatory, person by person and day by day, reveals the application of a “logic” so strict that it is divorced from reality and from any sensible model of human behaviour."

CautiousLurker2 · 13/02/2026 13:28

How long till he gets labelled a vexatious litigant?

Alpacajigsaw · 13/02/2026 13:30

RedToothBrush · 13/02/2026 13:26

Hehe.

The GLP really have made certain other legal cases and appeals look much easier to win.

Thanks chaps.

Brilliant

Mmmnotsure · 13/02/2026 13:32

Catiette · 13/02/2026 12:15

Ah, Peter and Jane. 😍

Here is a toilet. It is a male toilet. It is Peter's toilet.

Here is another toilet. It is a female toilet. It is Jane's toilet.

Peter goes into his toilet.

Jane goes into her toilet.

Peter does not go into Jane's toilet.

Jane does not go into Peter's toilet.

Peter is happy. Jane is happy.

Here is another toilet. It is very small. It has its own basin. It has its own taps. It has its own door. The door locks. It is a good toilet.

This toilet is for everyone.

Here is Jolyon.

He is unhappy.

Edited

It is a good toilet.
😁

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 13/02/2026 13:36

RedToothBrush · 13/02/2026 13:19

They have to have grounds to appeal.

What are they?

The appeal might be refused.

And the GLP also likely do not have standing to appeal. They would need the other two complainants to appeal.

Alpacajigsaw · 13/02/2026 13:36

When they are going on about the EHRC guidance being wrong and needing rewritten surely they mean the old guidance? ie the pre FWS one? Given the new one hasn’t been implemented yet

DolphinOnASkateboard · 13/02/2026 13:39

I think it's time he renamed his company.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 13/02/2026 13:42

Alpacajigsaw · 13/02/2026 13:36

When they are going on about the EHRC guidance being wrong and needing rewritten surely they mean the old guidance? ie the pre FWS one? Given the new one hasn’t been implemented yet

I don’t think they do!

DialSquare · 13/02/2026 13:43

DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 13:24

Wow. There are implications for other tribunals that I hadn't realised. From P-t-d on trans Reddit:

This is a disaster.

Some lowlights.

Paragraphs 35-46 concern the work Regulations. It overrules Kelly and mentions that case by name in para 41.

Croft, which the Peggie judgement relied on, is no longer law para 50.

Inclusion of a trans woman in a female Space does make it mixed sex.para 52.
Use of unisex or gender neutral facilities is not outing for trans people. Para 73.

As I suspected the GLP were spinning with the message quoted in this thread. They left off the last sentence of the paragraph:

(For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants’ submission in this case it would still be labelled “women”.)

It goes on to note that while doing so does not give rise to a claim of direct discrimination by men, it may on a case by case basis lead to an indirect discrimination claim by women.

Which, with the paragraphs above on obligations to provide single sex spaces, effectively means that only after providing mandatory female spaces could employers then provide separate trans inclusive ones.

That is much, much less 'silver' than Maugham was implying. Tbh his summary is a hair away from a lie by omission.

This was a comprehensive defeat.

I am angry today.

Not least at the GLP.

Their lawyers weren't able to answer the judges questions on the human rights grounds and had to go away and submit in writing and by inference from the convention portion of the ruling failed to do that with sufficient specificity; they were leaning far too heavily on Crofts which I criticised at the time; and are now going to need to fundraise after having given away a chunk of the trans legal fund to 'allied' advocacy groups.

Edited
Why Would You Do That Ross Geller GIF

TRA’s right now!

FranticFrankie · 13/02/2026 13:43

The trans sub-reddit is er .. interesting
So much worry about being outed

Sad times

DolphinOnASkateboard · 13/02/2026 13:44

DownhillTeaTray · 13/02/2026 13:24

Wow. There are implications for other tribunals that I hadn't realised. From P-t-d on trans Reddit:

This is a disaster.

Some lowlights.

Paragraphs 35-46 concern the work Regulations. It overrules Kelly and mentions that case by name in para 41.

Croft, which the Peggie judgement relied on, is no longer law para 50.

Inclusion of a trans woman in a female Space does make it mixed sex.para 52.
Use of unisex or gender neutral facilities is not outing for trans people. Para 73.

As I suspected the GLP were spinning with the message quoted in this thread. They left off the last sentence of the paragraph:

(For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants’ submission in this case it would still be labelled “women”.)

It goes on to note that while doing so does not give rise to a claim of direct discrimination by men, it may on a case by case basis lead to an indirect discrimination claim by women.

Which, with the paragraphs above on obligations to provide single sex spaces, effectively means that only after providing mandatory female spaces could employers then provide separate trans inclusive ones.

That is much, much less 'silver' than Maugham was implying. Tbh his summary is a hair away from a lie by omission.

This was a comprehensive defeat.

I am angry today.

Not least at the GLP.

Their lawyers weren't able to answer the judges questions on the human rights grounds and had to go away and submit in writing and by inference from the convention portion of the ruling failed to do that with sufficient specificity; they were leaning far too heavily on Crofts which I criticised at the time; and are now going to need to fundraise after having given away a chunk of the trans legal fund to 'allied' advocacy groups.

Edited

The last bit of that is actually quite sad. Whatever your views of the issue, the GLP made a lot of promises, talked up their chances and gave a lot of people false hope in return for taking their money. There are some vulnerable, desperate people out there who have been led down the garden path by Jolyon solely for the benefit of his own ego.

Iamnotalemming · 13/02/2026 13:47

@Ereshkigalangcleg @spannasaurus I was under the impression that the Bar Standards Board was still the regulator even for unregistered barristers. I will have a dig.

gruit · 13/02/2026 13:49

I bet all the D list “celebrities” who signed up to the GLP concert thingy at Wembley are glad to be raising yet more money for such a worthwhile cause. I mean, the only way their fundraising money could be put to better use is if it was flushed down the toilet.

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 13:50

FranticFrankie · 13/02/2026 13:43

The trans sub-reddit is er .. interesting
So much worry about being outed

Sad times

This made me 🤭

'Is anyone else starting to think that Maugham and the GLP might not be what we need them to be?'

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 13/02/2026 13:52

DolphinOnASkateboard · 13/02/2026 13:44

The last bit of that is actually quite sad. Whatever your views of the issue, the GLP made a lot of promises, talked up their chances and gave a lot of people false hope in return for taking their money. There are some vulnerable, desperate people out there who have been led down the garden path by Jolyon solely for the benefit of his own ego.

Why isn’t the most popular post on that sub Reddit:

”The GLP took £300k of our money and lost, we should be angry”

Iamnotalemming · 13/02/2026 13:53

Iamnotalemming · 13/02/2026 13:47

@Ereshkigalangcleg @spannasaurus I was under the impression that the Bar Standards Board was still the regulator even for unregistered barristers. I will have a dig.

OK so he is no longer a member of the bar at all, I just checked.
I had thought he was unregistered, ie a barrister without a practising certificate.

What a slippery fish.

BettyBooper · 13/02/2026 13:53

DolphinOnASkateboard · 13/02/2026 13:44

The last bit of that is actually quite sad. Whatever your views of the issue, the GLP made a lot of promises, talked up their chances and gave a lot of people false hope in return for taking their money. There are some vulnerable, desperate people out there who have been led down the garden path by Jolyon solely for the benefit of his own ego.

Yes you're right on this. Though I did just have a chuckle in my previous post, it's not funny really. The GLP should know better and are exploitative.

JustSpeculation · 13/02/2026 13:53

MarieDeGournay · 13/02/2026 13:03

Eventually, by page 13, I think I can say 'good news!' - it was a bit unclear for a while, wasn't it?

I wish the judge had NOT said
I consider there would, in principle, be scope for a strong argument that a rule or practice that permitted trans women to use the “female” lavatory but required other biological men to use the male lavatory would comprise different but not less favourable treatment on grounds of sex. However, the circumstances of the case would be decisive. (For the purposes of the EA 2010 the lavatory would be mixed-sex, but for the purposes of the Claimants’ submission in this case it would still be labelled “women”.)”

because it looks like the words 'there would' 'in principle' 'scope' 'strong argument' are being ignored by the TRAs and they are only seeing the words 'a rule or practice that permitted trans women to use the “female” lavatory'.

It was unhelpful to even suggest it, because of the background of cynically manufactured confusion, but the judge probably didn't realise how it would be seized-upon and misused.

The batting away of the little-boys-being-brought-in-to-the-women's -by-mum-makes-it-mixed-sex nonsense was aceSmile

True, but everything is going to get spun anyway. I think it does have the merit of focusing the issue on the circumstances. Clearly, there would have to be another facility which was not "mixed sex" in this way and was signposted as "women who are biologically female as opposed to being men going through, intending to go through or having gone through a process etc etc" (Golly! There's an indigestible sign for a door!) in order to accurately reflect the precise definition of the protected characteristic which was being treated differently but not less favourably. It really makes you wonder what "circumstances of the case" would enable a company to implement such a "principle"

Londonmummy66 · 13/02/2026 13:54

There are some people on the loopy reddit board that do support PTD - a few saying that they'd rather understand what they're up against than the spin. He really doesn't like the fox botherer though.... (my bold)

That is much, much less 'silver' than Maugham was implying. Tbh his summary is a hair away from a lie by omission.

This was a comprehensive defeat.

I am angry today.
Not least at the GLP.
Their lawyers weren't able to answer the judges questions on the human rights grounds and had to go away and submit in writing and by inference from the convention portion of the ruling failed to do that with sufficient specificity; they were leaning far too heavily on Crofts which I criticised at the time; and are now going to need to fundraise after having given away a chunk of the trans legal fund to 'allied' advocacy groups.

I often think of PTD as the reddit equivalent of the wonderful prh47bridge who can always give us the legal low down when we need it.

spannasaurus · 13/02/2026 13:55

Iamnotalemming · 13/02/2026 13:53

OK so he is no longer a member of the bar at all, I just checked.
I had thought he was unregistered, ie a barrister without a practising certificate.

What a slippery fish.

He gets to keep his KC because that's usually only withdrawn if the barrister is disbarred (and not always then). As he's no longer registered he can't be disbarred afaik

dreichluver · 13/02/2026 13:55
another one bites the dust bai GIF

What a waste of time and energy.

I guess some people have more money than sense.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.