is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

This is the Scottish government we’re talking about here!! 😂

could/would SG take this further if FWS win?

It is quite refreshing to hear SCRH stating that female prisoner and staff rights are not considered in the current SPS policy. Nice to have it stated in court that trans rights do not have priority over the rights of others.

I do wonder about the article 8 rights to privacy of trans people. Surely that can’t be an absolute right to not have their trans status kept secret on all situations?

Respectfully I think it’s even worse than that. They’re considering only whether the violent men have been violent against women. Men who have been convicted of violence against men are ok to be with women, apparently. It didn’t occur to anyone that a violent man could and would be be violent against everyone?

Rights to privacy are qualified.

from the ECHR:

There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others

So there is no right to privacy where law says there is no right, as required (among other things) for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

in short, no, there is no absolute right to privacy about one’s trans status.

Thank you. Thats very clear.

Yes. Peter Laing/Paris Green 'only' participated in the violation and murder of a man.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/trans-killers-jail-rammy-leaves-34912548

Where exactly do you think a post operative transsexual should go? A men's prison is a death sentence for a post op trans woman. Case by case allows the prison service to distinguish between a genuine transsexual who's post op and no danger to anyone and a clear chancer like Karen White or Isla Bryson.

Why is this a problem women need to solve and women's safety sacrificed for?

They’ve already discussed in court that they can be kept safe within the male estate as they do with other vulnerable male prisoners.

It’s not just about whether they are violent either. Merely being of the male sex means that showering or undressing next to them would constitute a humiliating and degrading environment for the female prisoners.

I trust the prison service to make it safe in the men's estate or in separate provision but removing the safety of women and subjecting them to emotional abuse and coercive control - all of the women in a prison - is not a solution.

Wherever he goes, it's not in the women's.

And also, this is not women's problem to solve. The law is clear.

Edited to delete my response to the Interuptaron.

What threat does a post op transsexual pose?

Men pose a risk to women whether they have been castrated or not.

She's post op so is physically a woman. That's no more degrading than shower next to anyone.

A postop transidentified man is still a man. Men without a penis cans still frighten and intimidate women. And I honestly don't care if this makes you sad, should have thought about all the implications before you got your penis chopped off.

If the prison service can make it safe enough for a woman to be in the men's estate then they'd be able to make all prisons mixed. We know they can't do that, so it's fairly clear they can't make it safe for a post op transsexual.

This is a relevant question to the thread.

The argument is that the law permits a "bright-line" rule. Even if it may be that there exists a trans identifying man who may not be a harm to women in the women's estate (a point which is explicitly not conceded) the clarity and simplicity of a hard rule such as "no men in women's prisons" easily justifies infringing on the rights of certain difficult case individuals.

It isn't necessary for every man to pose a threat in order to justify a "no men" rule without exception.

So your question doesn't need to be answered.

A man tells women what they should or should not find degrading or humiliating...

She's post op so is physically a woman. That's no more degrading than shower next to anyone.

No, women are not just dickless men.

Any woman can still frighten and intimidate another woman. We don't send those women to the men's estate because of it.

We had eight hundred posts about dicks on women on another thread.

Respectfully could this thread be about this court case?

No, because they are women.