is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

It does, as transsexual post op women have rights too. She poses no threat to women and is at a serious risk in any men's estate. Without being in the women's estate she would effectively be confined to solitary confinement for her entire sentence which would be a form of cruel and unusual punishment.

Which means we don't need men posing as women, with or without penis, in addition to scary women to frighten women in prisons and elsewhere.

Obviously a post op man who identifies as a woman must go in the men’s prison. The prison service deals with men with all kind of vulnerabilities including elderly paedophiles and child killers that are a target for other prisoners. Women are not a human shield.

Again, not our problem.

Blah, blah, blah.....ODFOD

It's the prison services problem, and the only safe place for a post op transsexual is the women's estate.

Don't be daft.

Geez, are you finding reading difficult?

Not our problem!

It does, as transsexual post op women have rights too.

They absolutely do, as everyone here will agree. But the right to be in a women's prison isn't one of those rights.

Without being in the women's estate she would effectively be confined to solitary confinement for her entire sentence

That's simply not true. There are many ways the SPS can keep safe such a man that they judge to be at risk in the men's estate. As AO pointed out, that's a management issue for the SPS to solve. But they must do so lawfully, and putting that man in a women's prison is unlawful.

You're likely to tell me that that man isn't a man, but a woman. With respect to your opinion, it's not your opinion that counts. FWS established beyond doubt that that trans identifying man (such as yourself) is still a man.

There are enough pedophiles to have a protected custody wing. There isn't enough to have a transsexual wing that separated pre and post op transsexuals. For a post op transsexual it's permanent solitary confinement (breach of international law) or the women's estate. There is no third option that won't lead to that woman being repeatedly sexually assaulted.

Women are not shields for castrated men or any other kind of man.

The majority of men who identify as women in prison are sex offenders. And across the whole population men who identify as women are more than five times more likely to be sex offenders than other men - who themselves are fifty times more likely to be sex offenders than women. So stop with the ‘no threat to women’!

Does anyone have any idea about how long it might take for a ruling to be issued after the case has finished?

How do you pose to keep a post op transsexual woman safe? Literally every man is a risk to her. The SPS have a policy to keep her safe which is to put her in the women's estate. Completely lawful, and the only ethical way.

That's why there's a case by case policy. A sex offender who hasn't had sex Reassignment Surgery is very different to a post op transsexual on non-violent or sexual offences.

I actually don’t care, they can go into a separate wing in a men’s prison, just like the prison service do with sex offenders. Women are not human shields for any man and there should be no men in women’s prisons, and our other single sex spaces.

Well, Paris Green isn't post-operative. He's been refused an operation.

Come to think of it, I can't recall there being any information about post-operative transsexuals in any Scottish prisons, but if there are any (which I doubt) then it's up to the prison service to find suitably safe accommodation for them. This doesn't mean that they have to enter the women's estate.

How do you pose to keep a post op transsexual woman safe?
I don't need to. The SPS does.

Literally every man is a risk to her.
That is a statement of fact that is simply not established.

Completely lawful,
Well, let's see what Lady Rose says.

They could be put in the protected custody wing with the paedophiles.

But rights need to be balanced.

If you accept that there are women who will be harmed physically or - and this is a key issue - mentally by the presence of a male in a space they are compelled to be in and cannot freely leave, then you must accept that their rights and well being will be compromised if forced to accept ‘the right’ of the male to be incarcerated alongside females.

The Supreme Court case makes it clear that there is no priority of rights between protected characteristics.

Women are not support resources for men.

Transsexual women are women, not men. Your plan would lead to transsexuals being left in permanent solitary confinement for their own safety. How do you justify forcing a prisoner into permanent solitary confinement?

Your plan would lead to transsexuals being left in permanent solitary confinement for their own safety.

Again this is your statement, and is entirely not established. Not even the SPS has said this. You are trying to conjure a "right" to be in a women's prison that simply doesn't exist in law.

Castrated sex offenders do not cease to offend; they become more violent in their sexual offending.

That's why there's a case by case basis. A sex offender who suddenly decided they were trans after being arrested is a clear threat to women and should be no where near a woman's prison.

A post op transsexual on minor offences is clearly no threat to other women and would actually be at serious risk in a men's prison. Where's the balancing there?

The law and biological reality says otherwise.