is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

Read the book Trans Britain: Our Journey out of the Shadows, and there is one chapter in there by “ James” Morton, ( a woman identifying as a man ) where the plan to get men into women’s prisons is clearly stated as a strategy to get men into all women’s single sex spaces, the imprisoned women being the canaries in the mines…😡
If that plan is defeated , then most of the house of cards will fall , and that’s just one reason why the SNP aka Scottish government will continue their ridiculous, reckless, corrupt stand in the court of session today and tomorrow

Those were my thoughts too. It's a relief that they are not pivoting from their position that single sex means single sex.

In relation to the code of practice, their most recent statement on that was that it is legally robust (despite the Guardian trying to suggest they are changing their position under the new chair).

Was anyone else not shocked to learn that the SHRC's submission is aligned with the Scottish government?

It was the first major part of the strategy, which is why it’s the hill the SG is prepared to die on. And I hope they well and truly expire.

I background listened to the case yesterday and thought I heard the judge accept that men are much more likely to commit sexual offences and that amongst the prison population TIM are much more likely to have committed sexual offences than the general male population.

I have not heard the latter spelt out in a court setting before. Does anyone know what study the court is using to support the statement?

Yes, it was Morton who said this:

We strategized that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise.

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/opaque-and-overdue-scottish-prison-service-trans-prisoner-policy-review

Utterly vile and disgraceful. They knew what they were doing by forcing men into women's prisons as a starting point, because, evidently, nobody cares about the rights or voices of women, especially the rights of "bad" women like prisoners.

Not sure what was used.

However the government prison stats and FOI and public data published by the prison service shows the numbers of TIM are % higher than the non-TIM population

I think it is the same link for today.

https://scotcourts.webex.com/wbxmjs/joinservice/sites/scotcourts/meeting/download/c9f5fe87219edf1377c90bd870cad992?key=meet&parameter=mijaz

He is definitely saying words.

I'm not going to break into song 😂

objectively? neutral?

I don't think he understands the meaning of those words.

He sounds desperate.

Not ideological? Sure, buddy.😒

It really is amazing how there is all this concern for TIF's now. There was never a mention before FWS Judgement.

Are there any or have been any TIF's in the male estate?

Does anyone know?

Just joined the live stream. What was the 'not going to break into song' about, please? I take it this man is the SPS legal representative?

I've had a quick search and the only thing I can find is one trans identified female was placed in a male prison and the next day was transferred to the female estate.

It really boils my piss that women are once again being used as a human shield reason that males can go into SSS.

FUCK RIGHT OFF

@Sitwithit It was just a quip from AO when he was speaking this morning.

AO said 'Lets start from the beginning....I'm not going to break into song' 😂

Thanks both. I admire AO's manner, sorry to have missed that one!

This man today keeps talking about transgender prisoners who want to live in their chosen gender (or possibly 'as' their chosen gender). I wonder if it would be within the judge's role that she could ask what he means by that? I don't like the idea that 'living in/as your chosen gender' is something that we all understand and agree upon.

It means whatever they fancy it means on any given day.

Good point from the judge about making men's estates safer in order to house TIM rather than housing them in the women's.

Women are not support animanls for males!!!!!!

Well there was that recent case of a TIF put in a male psychiatric ward who was RAPED WITHIN AN HOUR.

So you know, probably not safe putting TIFs in male prisons. And that is the same reason we don't want men in women's prisons, wards or anywhere else. The risk is the same risk, just amplified because it's men who specifically want to override that safeguard and are using deception to do so.

Using TIFs as some kind of reason to let rapey men into women's spaces is quite the coercively controlling master manipulation.

So a man being housed with other men? So what?