is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

'Asserted on the basis of absolutely no case law'. AON notes how offensive the suicide threats are.

'Reasonable steps', not 'whatever the prisoner demands'

Judge notes suicide threats feature in domestic abuse.

If we get picky about the language there is no 'right' in law, a legal, enforceable law about pronoun choices and certainly nothing about a right to make up.

These are privileges based on positive actions, sympathy and social sensitivity. Some of which is getting very worn out. Pronouns have never yet been held up in court, because it necessarily involves subordinating someone else's actual legal right to freedom of belief.

These were references from case law, and I think the Scotgov's points were obiter mentions.

Ideally they could take possession of Holyrood itself, and kick all the numpties out :)

AO is right - the ScotGov argument is very TRA it's effectively give them whatever they want or they will kill themselves and it will be your fault.

I lived the same experience and see this as nothing more than abusive control of others. That this STILL gets quoted angers me as being who've seen violent, controlling and abusive men can see this for what it is and yet we have lawyers trying to garner sympathy using this tool.

Delighted to see that those involved in the courtroom are wise to this (apologies, I'm just catching up and sounds as if the Judge is on it!) .

Judge 'what if the only solution is a womens prison?'

AoN 'its not a solution'.

So will we make women stay with men who threaten suicide?
Why are men who claim they are women so damn special?

LR keeps asking but why does AON have to come up with a solution for supposedly suicidal inmates who are trans?

'These are just assertions, nothing to support them. The law cannot be made on baseless assertions'.

'Its not a real convention right, its a fantasy journey in and out the dusty bluebells'

'I'm not making up the no men in womens prisons rule - it was written by the Scottish ministers, its very clear'

Can I just add that Aidan is fabulous. I'm fangirling as much as I do over Naomi when I hear him speak. He's to the point, and cuts through the nonsense in a way that can't leave any doubt.

JR: "GM's slightly strained interpretation"

They are talking in numbers ... Ive lost the thread.

Rule 126 - basic rule of men in men's prisons, women in women's prisons.

AOD - do i really have to go through all this nonsense?

He's talking about not amending the legislation. Not attempting to twist it.

'Its nonsensical. Its not good enough.'

'You cant disapply primary legislation under the HRA'

AON now attacking the semantic fuckwittery of the Scotgov approach. Not in so many words.

As this is Scotland then Carstairs would be the facility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Hospital

'Following him down the rabbit hole, through the looking glass'

'Scotgov are subverting both the EA and the HRA'

AO'N making great play of how tedious it is to have to deal with the nonsense. 'O God...'

Enjoyable for us, am not sure it isn't pissing the judge off.