is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

This suicide thing is getting on my nerves, there are other cohorts of male prisoners at increased risk of suicide ffs.

From Nick Wallis

GM .. I raise a TM because AO's challenge only covers one part. What can we do about TMs? We can't ignore them as my friend's submission does..

We must surely acknowledge the irony of TMs - trans identifying women, but women nonetheless - being prayed in aid to support the aims of trans identifying men - men.

Even in trans-world, women are relegated to the roles of levers to enforce men's desires.

As the judge pointed out, all prisoners are at increased risk of suicide.

He is actually using threats of suicide to influence the court's decision...

Can someone advise him to call 999?

It’s disgusting isn’t it? Absolutely shameful.

State-sanctioned coercive control. Scotgov should be prosecuted for domestic abuse against the population.

There was a rumour women could sue Ministers individually.

Yep

'If any of these trans prisoners kill themselves because you don't do what we say, it'll be on your head m'lady...'

This is my fantasy 😂
I want to take Swinney down.

He would have to illustrate why these men are more at risk than other men in the population, why they matter more than the other men in the population, that there is absolutely no other answer to their needs or any treatment possible other than sacrificing women to them and destroying women's rights in the man's interests, and why the needs of a few men outweigh the needs of every single woman SG are responsible for in the prison system. And why they would withhold this 'treatment' (is it NICE approved?) from other suicidal men. Or, for an example, not provide children to a man convicted of assaulting children to meet a risk assessed MH need.

I'll wait.

I'd think 'men have a (sex based) right to use women as resources against their consent and human rights under some circumstances' would be very interesting to test in the ECtHR.

This is getting really silly now.

"But but but" - yes indeed, my lady.

kill someone to protect someone else's rights

What is he on?

LR is struggling with his arguments

Judge: 'the risk of suicide is becoming a complete showstopper'... '... it cant be that you stop doing article 8 just because of potential for article 2 breach"

Glad judge pulled him up on that, its absurd.

He's finished pounding the law and has moved on to pounding the table.

He sounds like one of the more unhinged, ridiculous TRAs. This ideology beclowns all who defend it.

As a domestic abuse survivor, I want to intervene. This manipulation-by-suicide-threat is the same bullshit my ex used on me to stop me leaving him and to make me feel guilty even though I'd done nothing wrong. I did leave in the end, and guess what? He's not dead!

.. perhaps I will retreat from that position ...

Probably best

i'm just about managing to keep up with TT on nitter, is he about to disappear up his own arse?

Also how you identify these men, because lets be real about this: you might have 'Susan' who had a full penectomy ten years ago, and then Mike who transitioned last week and has popped a wig on and said the magic words.

Any lawyer could take that to court and say that endangering Mike by withholding his right to go and enjoy the women in a women's prison is unfair and prejudiced, dangerous and all the rest of it. If it's Susan then it has to be Mike too. I could bloody litigate that it's so obvious.

Not remotely interested in the issues of a trans unit: TIM can have a choice, local men's prison and vulnerable unit, or trans specific and the inconveniences that go with it, that's the special arrangement available end of. Reasonable, not perfect. I don't care about funding either considering the SG are happily spaffing god knows how much up the wall trying frantically to destroy women's rights. There's apparently a bottomless pit for TIMs, they can use that.

Same here.

He's saying parliament hadnt considered the risk of suicide.

Agreed. I'd think a whole lot of women have experienced the 'do this or I'll off myself' coercive bollocks from abusive men. It's boringly normal. And the answer is to ring the police and let them handle it, while walking away. Not rushing to do whatever stops him kicking off this afternoon, and bracing because he'll kick off about something else he wants to manipulate from you by this evening.