is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

If you are a long term prisoner, why wouldn’t you when it gives you so much power?

yes. Judge saying the argument presupposes that a trans identifying man has the right to be housed in a female prison and asking where that right comes from.

What's the answer? I missed the reference ("RC"), but it amounts to being allowed to live "as the person they have become", which... well, hmm.

Thank God we don't don't have to listen to another garbled explanation of DSD's.

Naomi picked up on this yesterday in fact, writing on X "Excellent thread. You don't have to balance a man's "right" to access women's spaces against women's rights to single-sex spaces unless the man has such a right in the first place. If someone says he does, it's on them to explain exactly where it comes from.". The thread in question was by Lucy Hunter-Blackburn, https://x.com/LucyHunterB/status/2018987216207536383
in which she said among other things "At a most serious level, a person who is sleeping on the streets, and whose need for food and shelter is objectively extremely high, has no right to enter your house, sleep there and be fed by you. No one is going to talk about “balancing” rights in that specific context".

Now arguing that accommodation means a cell!

Tbh, even an acknowledgement that a woman shouldn't be required to share a room/cell (women are accommodated in rooms apparently, men in cells!) with a trans-identifying man would be a step forwards. Hard to see how anyone wouldn't worry about the showers though...

I think AO has lost the will to live. 😂

Well quite. They seem to be arguing that as long as not sharing a cell it will be fine. Showers are communal are they not?

there are also other reasons we keep males and females apart for example the risk of pregnancy in prison should be avoided.

You can access the link to the livestream from Forwomen Scotland website. Nick Wallis is also doing a live meeting (he's not there, just watching on livestream) and a really excellent summary every day on his genderblog.net

Haha, no wonder! This is why KCs charge a grand per hour... it's the only way they can tolerate this bullshit.

It’s all utter nonsense, the Mandela rules state that prisons must be segregated by sex, god knows he must be turning in his grave at this farce. It was bad enough when the ANC got a fake translator for the deaf at his funeral…

A cell for a man and a room for a woman.

Is this all rooted in the Scottish parliament (i.e. SNP) trying to demonstrate that they are not subservient to Westminster?

Fuck only knows anymore.

I think you could well be correct, the Shortbread Senate wants to show how progressive they are …99% of them are rogues, liars , frauds and misogynists

While simultaneously blaming Westminster for all the problems they created themselves 🙄

'The easiest thing in the world' post FWS would be to have male and female.prisons.

Yes!!!

What is this animal.defenders thing he keeps referring to?

Found it. Animal Defenders Int v UK.

Risk averse = safeguarding.

he’s making FWS case for them?

Yes, and, imho, the Greens have made this a red line issue for supporting the SNP as a minority government if the SNP do not get an outright majority at the next election. I’m just guessing, but it seems likely given how utterly bonkers the Greens are on this stuff.

From Nick Wallis

GM but the risk to that is that SM are failing to take into account TG rights. If I can look at a small sample - the risk of suicide. Did parly [Parliament] when it enacted the EA envisage it was creating a scenario it was increasing the risk of suicide in the population? The answer is no

Boom - there it is. As far as a court is concerned, Parliament is all-knowing and all-seeing as to the consequences of its enactments. Otherwise judges could say well this is what this says, but Parliament obviously didn't realize the consequences of its words so it must have meant something else. The whole of FWS depended on trying to ascertain the meaning of the words that Parliament used and specifically on not back-interpreting the words to fit a consequence the different parties claimed Parliament intended.

To put it another way - the only method Parliament has of stating its intentions is the words it uses in the Act. If the words normally constructed mean something, that's what Parliament intended. So, that point, I think, is completely wrong.

Is Aiden O Neill crying?

Oh, wait, no, he's laughing.

Oh good