is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

'Impose an artificial constraint' - by calling a trans identifyng man a man.

'One is unacceptable' - in context of suicide (of trans male)

Ireland (half) managed it with 2 males with GRCs

Still in the Womens wing of Limerick Prison but as soon as the Prisons had the companionship box ticked the males were moved into the specialist area.

Does Aidan get to respond to any of this?

Asking O Neill what prestidigitation means and how to pronounce it.

Yes, he gets an hour at the end.

If sex doesn’t matter then why shouldn’t these men be in men’s prisons?

Surely that makes it easier to have a trans unit?

They dont know the mics on.

i have this weird fantasy that the SM’s counsel is going to stand up after the break and say “you know what, I don’t believe any of this rubbish either, they’re right, we are wrong, now let’s go to the pub.”

The argument is that it would be like solitary confinement, a single transman with nobody else; also, given Scotland's low population density compared to England, that it might impose unreasonable travel times on relatives visiting etc.

I see what you mean but wouldn't TIMs be housed with other high risk prisoners rather than on their own (meaning that overall there would be higher numbers)

The third space would be general high risk rather than specifically trans

That doesn’t make sense. 80% of trans identifying men in the Scottish prisons are in the male estate. That means there must be at least 5 trans identifying men in total. 5 is enough for a unit.

I point out that the SPS didn’t provide an affidavit from anyone asserting that it was not possible to have a trans unit or find another way to manage trans people. Is their advocate allowed to give evidence to that effect himself?

Yes my understanding is that they would be in a unit with other vulnerable male prisoners. Not a specific trans unit.

There is just one dedicated women’s prison in Scotland so how is the ‘but travel time….’ different?

I foresee a situation where men decide post conviction to transition so they can have access to the more feminine looking trans men in the trans unit.

then, it will suddenly become very important to distinguish between “genuine” trans people and others.

That is, as soon as it becomes a men’s problem.

This man has such a borrrrrrring delivery style.

He needs to blow his damn nose

Sooooo true. I'm struggling to follow it.

It absolutely is enough for a unit within the male estate and likewise delusional women who think they are men should be a separate unit woth the female estate.
I wonder how many men in dresses would find it so attractive if they know damn fine they will be in with other men? How many will suddenly find their “ trans identity “ then ?

They already are deciding to transition to access women in prison.

There is no such thing as ‘genuine’ trans people. Either anyone who self IDs is no one is.

I don’t think it’s just about accessing women. I think a big part is to fuck with the prison staff with more and more demands that if it were not for the sacred ‘trans’ label would just get a stiff ignoring.

Yes I think that’s the best solution really.

It’s not complex you utter prick!!!!!

Most are housed in Ratho wing at HMP Edinburgh, where other vulnerable prisoners are, including sex offenders.