is there a thread for FWS / Prisons?

[weegielass]

Its live today on the scottish tribunals website and lasting for three days. Easy to join and good audio quality. I think that's marion on screen in the background. She seemed rather amused at the judge trying to understand the definitions.

The answer apparently is mental health.

'The Downsview solution'

Downsview is a women's prison

Women's needs and men's needs are different
Different vulnerabilities
Different rehabilitation needs

So it's not about the threat?

TIM's need women to support their transition
The women are support characters for men's mental health

So women’s rights to single sex prisons come secondary to men’s mental health needs?! Am I reading that right?!?!

Cannot run the risk of suicide. It would be 'All too easy' to follow FWS, apparently.

I think she gets it…

Women's mental health is not mentioned.

I really hope so

This man appears to be attempting to argue that prisons have never been designed around single sex provision. That sex is somehow completely irrelevant to the topic.

What about other suicidal men? Must they also be accommodated in female prisons if they claim they need to be to stop them attempting suicide?!?! It’s just all so coercive isn’t it?!?

It’s irrelevant clearly. Only men matter.

Clue : School 🚽

The Scotgov's arguments make legal sense, so long as one is careful to not look at anyone other than trans identifying males.

does anyone know when the outcome might arrive? What is the usual timescale for JRs?

Not a basis for appeal unless the Judge included a section to claim that a male could go through a female puberty
The phrase
"puberty in their acquired gender"
is not making that claim it is just a rewording of
" if the male is feminine enought to be deemed to pass"

Scotland can't have a trans unit because of the low numbers.

I had heard about 3 months

so around election time.....?

Of transmen in prison, specifically - transmen are finally useful to the argument...

Trans unit also presents transport challenges.

Very complex.
So very complex.
So very very complex.

Erm no.

Ministers do their best, make mistakes, bad things happen. In this case, theyve been put in a straitjacket by the artificial parameter that they must describe a man as a.man and a woman as a woman.

Slight paraphrase.

I really don't think there's anything "artificial" about having to define "man" by biological sex!

Also, heaven forbid, but what happens if a woman in a female prison is suicidal because of the presence of men?

Judge notes suicide risk applies to all prisoners.

Does Aidan get to respond to any of this?

Ok so you have a transwoman prisoner who has raped and murdered women who claims they’ll commit suicide if not accommodated in a female prison. What then?