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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Isn’t AGP also what every woman experiences when they get dressed up & feel good about themselves?

1000 replies

Theboredpanda · 20/01/2026 11:04

I have no agenda here. I’ve always just been interested in exploring other perspectives of debates…although I’m sure this particular thought will get flamed on here and end up very one-sided indeed 🤣
I don’t believe every trans woman has AGP, but I believe a significant proportion do. And I’ve always considered that proportion to be creepy, I feel anger at the fact these men get to walk around, at least in some circles, socially accepted as women, just so they can satisfy a sexual fetish. However, I was thinking about how I feel as a woman who’s comfortable and happy about being a woman when I get dressed up in my favourite sexy outfit and put on some makeup. It makes me feel sexy. Not sexually aroused but I do feel sexy. Is that vastly different to what a trans woman feels like when they get dressed up and look (at least in their eyes) like a woman? Could it be that it’s either not AGP and we all feel sexy when we know we look good as the gender we are or want to be…or everyone’s a bit AGP when they think they look sexy because they therefore feel sexy? Or is this a totally unoriginal thought that’s already been troped out by TRAs and actually there is a huge difference??

OP posts:
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Glowingup · 20/01/2026 15:06

But if you get turned on by dressing as a woman, why not just do that on the occasions that you get turned on? Why go to the lengths of changing names, taking hormones, potentially ostracising yourself? Are we to believe they are literally permanently turned on?

PapayaOlympus · 20/01/2026 15:09

Glowingup · 20/01/2026 15:06

But if you get turned on by dressing as a woman, why not just do that on the occasions that you get turned on? Why go to the lengths of changing names, taking hormones, potentially ostracising yourself? Are we to believe they are literally permanently turned on?

Pretty much. I think we underestimate just how strongly a lot of men are driven by sex. And yeah, they think hormones are going to give them their own 'breasts' and that alone is huge motivation.
As humiliation kinks often go hand in hand, then ostracistion can actually be a motivator

MistyGreenAndBlue · 20/01/2026 15:12

Runnersandtoms · 20/01/2026 12:54

I actually have no issue with AGP in principle. People get turned on by all sorts of things and what they do on their own or with a partner in the privacy of their own home is up to them, as long as it's consensual. When it becomes an issue is when men with AGP think everyone else wants to see them act out their fantasy, and that it means everyone else should consider them as a woman. If people walked around in BDSM gear because they get turned on by it, most people would not be happy to see that in public.

Except at Pride where, apparently, it's fine.

Glowingup · 20/01/2026 15:12

PapayaOlympus · 20/01/2026 15:09

Pretty much. I think we underestimate just how strongly a lot of men are driven by sex. And yeah, they think hormones are going to give them their own 'breasts' and that alone is huge motivation.
As humiliation kinks often go hand in hand, then ostracistion can actually be a motivator

Maybe my view is skewed as my DP has a pretty low sex drive and none of my male friends fit the sex obsessed man stereotype. I can’t imagine someone walking round in a permanent state of arousal or making irreversible changes to their body simply to satisfy their sex drive.

Hicupping · 20/01/2026 15:15

Glowingup · 20/01/2026 15:12

Maybe my view is skewed as my DP has a pretty low sex drive and none of my male friends fit the sex obsessed man stereotype. I can’t imagine someone walking round in a permanent state of arousal or making irreversible changes to their body simply to satisfy their sex drive.

Men will rape children to satisfy their arrousal. They will watch videos of Children being raped. The bar for what men will do for their sex drive is in hell. Not all men but far too many.

CassOle · 20/01/2026 15:17

WandaSiri · 20/01/2026 14:28

@CassOle
Sorry - totally cross-posted with you!

Although how many women actually have autoandrophilia is a question that should be asked. I'm going to go out on a limb and say hardly any to none.

Female sexuality and male sexuality are not the same. There are important differences, and this fact should not be forgotten.

nicepotoftea · 20/01/2026 15:19

Glowingup · 20/01/2026 15:12

Maybe my view is skewed as my DP has a pretty low sex drive and none of my male friends fit the sex obsessed man stereotype. I can’t imagine someone walking round in a permanent state of arousal or making irreversible changes to their body simply to satisfy their sex drive.

You might be informed by threads for trans widows.

CassOle · 20/01/2026 15:20

Glowingup · 20/01/2026 15:12

Maybe my view is skewed as my DP has a pretty low sex drive and none of my male friends fit the sex obsessed man stereotype. I can’t imagine someone walking round in a permanent state of arousal or making irreversible changes to their body simply to satisfy their sex drive.

I suggest that you don't Google what a 'euphoria boner' is, but the concept of a gender affirming euphoria boner is very much a thing with these men.

Put on a spinny skirt... and Oh! The euphoria!

See also 'feeling cute', which is not as innocent as it sounds.

ETA - paraphilias escalate. Remeber that.

spannasaurus · 20/01/2026 15:23

LucyMonth · 20/01/2026 14:26

An organ which performs a life essential function several times a day? Nope. & yes when we are discussing gender reassignment surgery breasts are “just tissue” because it is breast tissue which is removed. The function of the breast as an organ does not have to be taken into account. It does in bottom surgery for male bodies.

I honestly can’t believe I’m having to debate the difference between a breast reduction and the removal of a penis…God help us. Anyone thinking the wording of this matters is being willfully obtuse.

For a breastfeeding mother her breasts perform a life essential function several times a day.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 20/01/2026 15:31

DialSquare · 20/01/2026 13:03

I do find him fascinating though. He only wears historical clothing and makes a lot of it himself. I like his confidence in being so flamboyant. You can tell he genuinely loves the clothes.

Ah but is he AROUSED by the idea of himself as an 18th Century wombat? That's the real question.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 20/01/2026 15:33

LucyMonth · 20/01/2026 13:58

They aren’t the same thing OP but I’m happy to have a more nuanced discussion.

I’m a bio female and I have absolutely been sexually aroused by myself all done up and in sexy lingerie for example. I’ve thought about why that is. I don’t fancy myself. I don’t find myself exceptionally attractive. I’m very much average.

I suspect it comes from the fact that all of us have been bombarded our whole lives with images of sexualised woman so that when we sexualise ourselves it’s…well sexy. Also possibly that the thought of my partner being sexually aroused by me is in turn arousing for me.

To me AGP and trans women are just completely separate things. To me it’s akin to the old “gay men can’t work with little boys because they’ll probably sexually assault them” moral panic. Sure some gay men are attracted to little boys but most aren’t so the two aren’t equivocal. But most people here won’t be ready for that sort of conversation and blindly refuse to discuss any of the similarities between the things said about trans people and what has been said previously about gay people.

That was a lot of words to say "some women have internalised the male gaze to the point that they see themselves almost as a man would".

But also, it's not AGP because she's seeing herself as the woman she is through her imagining of a man's eyes. AGP is a man seeing himself as his imagining of a woman that he can never be through his own eyes.

Autoandrophilia would be a woman seeing herself as her imagining of the man she can never be through her own eyes. Given that women's sexual desire is less visual than men's and clothes fitting well is part of what makes a man look attractive, the likelihood of a woman putting on a man's suit and getting sexually aroused is very very low, even if only because a suit cut for men will not fit her properly.

KaleidoscopeSmile · 20/01/2026 15:33

Theboredpanda · 20/01/2026 11:17

Lol I knew these would be the responses. “No. Just no”. No explanation why. No ability to look at the nuances of this incredibly complex topic, no ability to consider that there may be some grey inbetween the black and white. No curiosity about differing perspectives out of fear it would challenge your hardcore beliefs because you simply cannot ever be wrong about anything 🙄

"I have no agenda here...."

Riiight

MistyGreenAndBlue · 20/01/2026 15:35

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/01/2026 13:06

I guess the self objectification that can be involved in a woman dressing 'sexy' is what is being got at by the OP.

I often think that some women go so over the top with the hair and the collagen and the trout pout etc that they end up out dragging even the most grotesque drag queen.

Edited

Still not AGP though. Quite the opposite in fact. It comes from insecurity in most cases I think. It's about how OTHERS see you, not how you see yourself.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 20/01/2026 15:37

LucyMonth · 20/01/2026 14:31

Absolutely nothing whatsoever in your comment has anything at all to do with anything I said.

It is factually correct to say that previously people have deemed homosexuals as sexually deviant and dangerous towards vulnerable groups because of their sexuality and only that.

It is factually correct that many people believe NB/trans identifying people are sexually deviant and dangerous towards vulnerable groups because of their gender identity and only because of that.

& side note there are plenty, PLENTY of people who believe homosexuality isn’t “real” and who claim it is brought about by “overconsumption of porn”, hmm that’s sounds familiar doesn’t it?

Card carrying bisexual BTW and definately a “proper woman” so no idea where you pulled that BS from.

Ah yes, I'm glad you raised that. It's worth exploring.

It is factually correct that gay men present the same risk towards vulnerable groups as heterosexual men do - neither more nor less.
It is also factually correct that lesbian women present the same risk towards vulnerable groups as heterosexual women do - neither more nor less.

So you are quite right that if you are worried about protecting vulnerable groups from sexual assault then there is no need to discriminate on grounds of sexual orientation - gay or straight makes no difference. Only prejudice would insist otherwise.

Further: It is also factually correct the risk towards vulnerable groups presented by men is higher than the risk presented by women.

Now - can you see the difference - and the problem - yet? Transwomen are men who want to be treated as if they are women. Some of them believe they "really" are women. They want to be risk assessed as if they are women, they want to be treated as if other people are just as safe around a transwoman as they are around a woman, they want other people to believe that people are just as safe around a transwomen as they are around a woman. But the facts say different. It is factually correct that transwoman present the same risk to other people as men, not as women. So it is not prejudice but wisdom to treat transwoman as more risky than women. It probably wouldn't be fair to treat transwomen as being more risky to vulnerable groups than men, but honesty and evidence means we have to accept that transwomen present the same risk to other people as other men do.

This is very different from gay men and homophobia. Gay men don't want to be perceived as lower risk than other men, they don't want anyone to pretend they are different from heterosexual men in this regard. Gay rights activists just accept that gay men should be compared to other men. Transactivists aren't willing to accept the same comparison.

Caring people often worry more about the reverse problem - about how vulnerable transwomen are to being assaulted by men. Transactivists use this (with whatever degree of cynicism or genuine belief) to justify transwomen using women's spaces. But transwomen are not at greater risk of sexual assault than women are, though they might be more at risk then other men. And whether they are at more risk or not, it is still quite possible to be both extra vulnerable and extra dangerous to others (think of Lennie in "Of Mice and Men"). Transwomen remain a risk to women, whether or not they are also at risk from men. It is not prejudiced or transphobic to recognise that.

Transmen are a slightly different issue. Huge doses of testosterone can make women more sexually active and also more aggressive which could make them more of a threat to others; but I don't know how the numbers stack up in reality.

(I like the idea of a "card carrying bisexual" btw. How did you earn your card?)

soddingspiderseason · 20/01/2026 15:37

no, completely different, not in any way sexual

WifeOfTiresias · 20/01/2026 15:40

Theboredpanda · 20/01/2026 11:27

Ok I suppose my agenda, if you want to call it that, is to see if it’s possible to have a reasonable discussion about trans people without being shouted down, flamed or totally shut down. I know pro-trans people have an inability to have any kind of reasonable discussion about it, hence cancelling people, labelling anyone who questions the ideology as transphobic etc but isn’t that what anti-trans people are always moaning about? “Why can’t we have a reasonable discussion about it?” Etc. You’re just as bad! This is why the debate is so toxic. No side has the ability to consider any perspective that might threaten their beliefs. It’s ignorance IMO. Ah it’s lonely being open-minded sometimes. But I’ve proved my point or “agenda” so I’ll go now.

Your use of the phrase “anti trans” makes your agenda very clear.

DialSquare · 20/01/2026 15:45

MistyGreenAndBlue · 20/01/2026 15:31

Ah but is he AROUSED by the idea of himself as an 18th Century wombat? That's the real question.

From what I’ve seen of him, (and the way he tucks himself in!), I would say no. Maybe he just hasn’t really considered the wombat bit enough yet!

MalfunctioningSexDoll · 20/01/2026 15:46

MyThreeWords · 20/01/2026 12:07

'Malfunctioning sex doll' Grin

Wonder if that MN username is taken.

That is exactly the problem so many men have when it comes to understanding women. They think that any residual private existence we have beyond their fantasies/needs is a kind of malfunction

You called.

Sorry for the delay I got a puncture.

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/01/2026 15:46

MistyGreenAndBlue · 20/01/2026 15:35

Still not AGP though. Quite the opposite in fact. It comes from insecurity in most cases I think. It's about how OTHERS see you, not how you see yourself.

Yes, but I think that is maybe what the OP was trying to get at.

JLou08 · 20/01/2026 15:48

I don't agree with the sexual fetish argument for transwomen. If all transwomen dress as women for sexual fetish are all transmen doing it for sexual fetish too?
Just seems a lazy stereotype to me.

SilenceInside · 20/01/2026 15:50

JLou08 · 20/01/2026 15:48

I don't agree with the sexual fetish argument for transwomen. If all transwomen dress as women for sexual fetish are all transmen doing it for sexual fetish too?
Just seems a lazy stereotype to me.

Who is saying that all transwomen dress as woman for a sexual fetish? I don't think anyone, not even the OP, is claiming that.

Memoryhole · 20/01/2026 15:51

Nope. Going to go out on a line here and say I’ve never been driven to masturbate having got dressed in the morning. Or even if I think I look ‘sexy’. Never looked at myself in the mirror and felt compelled to flick the old bean.

Waitwhat23 · 20/01/2026 15:53

JLou08 · 20/01/2026 15:48

I don't agree with the sexual fetish argument for transwomen. If all transwomen dress as women for sexual fetish are all transmen doing it for sexual fetish too?
Just seems a lazy stereotype to me.

Not all. But certainly some. And of those, some are very open about it (see Grayson Perry and the image I posted upthread).

MistyGreenAndBlue · 20/01/2026 15:57

LucyMonth · 20/01/2026 14:26

An organ which performs a life essential function several times a day? Nope. & yes when we are discussing gender reassignment surgery breasts are “just tissue” because it is breast tissue which is removed. The function of the breast as an organ does not have to be taken into account. It does in bottom surgery for male bodies.

I honestly can’t believe I’m having to debate the difference between a breast reduction and the removal of a penis…God help us. Anyone thinking the wording of this matters is being willfully obtuse.

You hear that wims? Your breasts (which some of us use/have used to feed our offspring) are just not as important as a man's cock.

How about NOBODY cuts off any perfectly healthy functioning body parts?

BTW men can still pee without a penis. Women cannot breastfeed without breasts.

Helleofabore · 20/01/2026 16:02

JLou08 · 20/01/2026 15:48

I don't agree with the sexual fetish argument for transwomen. If all transwomen dress as women for sexual fetish are all transmen doing it for sexual fetish too?
Just seems a lazy stereotype to me.

In addition to other replies, your post seems to miss the significant point that female people often have very different motivations to be seen as male people than male people who have a transgender identity. The two experiences are not symmetrical from a motivation perspective.

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