Isn’t AGP also what every woman experiences when they get dressed up & feel good about themselves?

[Theboredpanda]

I have no agenda here. I’ve always just been interested in exploring other perspectives of debates…although I’m sure this particular thought will get flamed on here and end up very one-sided indeed 🤣
I don’t believe every trans woman has AGP, but I believe a significant proportion do. And I’ve always considered that proportion to be creepy, I feel anger at the fact these men get to walk around, at least in some circles, socially accepted as women, just so they can satisfy a sexual fetish. However, I was thinking about how I feel as a woman who’s comfortable and happy about being a woman when I get dressed up in my favourite sexy outfit and put on some makeup. It makes me feel sexy. Not sexually aroused but I do feel sexy. Is that vastly different to what a trans woman feels like when they get dressed up and look (at least in their eyes) like a woman? Could it be that it’s either not AGP and we all feel sexy when we know we look good as the gender we are or want to be…or everyone’s a bit AGP when they think they look sexy because they therefore feel sexy? Or is this a totally unoriginal thought that’s already been troped out by TRAs and actually there is a huge difference??

Who cares? They can share the gender neutral toilets with you.

Women's only spaces means exactly that.

You don't speak for other women regarding boundaries.

The only reason needed is, "Because some women need it." That's it. Some women need women-only spaces, and the law has given them those spaces, so now it's up to men to respect those women and give them those women-only spaces which they need.

Tell you what, I do not recommend putting the word ambassador into the Gif search function.

All I wanted was a pyramid of Ferrero Rocher!

Toilets are toilets. Not safe spaces.

My argument is informed by a lifetime of living as a woman, past history of abusive males, including 'transwomen', and years of reading, research, discussion, and argument.

No amount of taunting is going to shift the dial on that.

You could try making an argument. I will listen, I promise.

Ooh, you know I cant resist a warning.

And the majority of people agree that male people should be excluded from female single sex provisions:

YOUGOV UK TRACKER COMPARISONS

The following is the data from UK trackers from 2018 - 2024 tracking public opinion as part of their series of 'Where does the British public stand on transgender rights'. 2018 results included where they are available.

Here are some of the results that relate to the needs for female people to have single sex provisions:

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…
Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 27 [16] 12% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 14%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 25%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 17%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 58%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 25%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 29%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 18%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 55%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 28%
Don't know 26 [25] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 19%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 63%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 17%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 23%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 8%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 60%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 19%
Don't know 27 [25] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

And finally:
This question was also not asked in 2018

Do you believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, does or does not present a genuine risk of harm to women? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Does not present a genuine risk of harm 39 [32] 25%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 14%
Does present a genuine risk of harm 32 [39] 55%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 29 [29] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

In a pretty competitive field, I think for me, the standout one is that men go in the ladies to skip the queue.

Spoken by a man who has never actually gone to the ladies, is my bet.

You're the only person talking about safe spaces. They are single sex spaces.

Good fucking lord! What on earth prompted THAT?!

Don't look, Skywinn. Not appropriate.

It's not illegal for men and women to use whichever toilets they want. That's not accurate. You also haven't at any point, explained how law = correct.

IKR?? Skip the queue??? Well it is indeed a well known fact that women's toilets never ever have massive queues compared to the mens

i think that might win the award for most ridiculous response and that's up against some pretty stiff competition!

It's unlawful, according to discrimination law.

Have you not been reading any of the court cases? The Supreme Court judgement?

It's unlawful, according to discrimination law.

Have you not been reading any of the court cases? The Supreme Court judgement?

It's factually wrong to say that someone is a predator because they go against a law. Being a predator requires intent and action. That's your fallacy.

Good heavens, how many times are you going to say that and how many times will I come up with an illustration:

'Unhand me officer, and return that Mars bar to me, I am hungry and the law does not factually dictate whether it is right or wrong for me to walk out of the shop without paying for it. Your argument that I have nicked it boils down to authoritarian technicalities. Property is theft. I want my mum.'

Whether or not you think it is wrong for a man to be in a space designated - by a range laws and regulations - for the sole use of women, is irrelevant.

There are two distinct categories here:
The Law
and
Skywinn's opinion.

You seem to be confusing them.

Jesus. I've lost the will to live. Its like arguing with soup.

So good it posted twice 😄

And? That doesn't make it wrong. Do you think something should always be considered a crime, just because of law?

Well it's a tad surprising. To say the least.
If I type in escort, will I find a selection of Ford cars?

😆

Laws are often wrong. Do you think women who have abortion should be criminalized in countries where it's unlawful? Because you're argument seems to be that just because something is deemed wrong in the law, it's okay to force it, whether or not it's right or wrong.

In this specific case, of course!

Are you trying to justify walking into women's toilets on the basis of the fact that I don't like some laws??

Cos, I gotta tell ya...

I don't believe that law = automatically correct so I don't know why you keep harping on about that.

I also don't care whether it's legal or illegal for people to use whichever toilets they want. What I care about, is what it says about a man that he would use a women-only space, knowing full well that he's expected not to.