Isn’t AGP also what every woman experiences when they get dressed up & feel good about themselves?

[Theboredpanda]

I have no agenda here. I’ve always just been interested in exploring other perspectives of debates…although I’m sure this particular thought will get flamed on here and end up very one-sided indeed 🤣
I don’t believe every trans woman has AGP, but I believe a significant proportion do. And I’ve always considered that proportion to be creepy, I feel anger at the fact these men get to walk around, at least in some circles, socially accepted as women, just so they can satisfy a sexual fetish. However, I was thinking about how I feel as a woman who’s comfortable and happy about being a woman when I get dressed up in my favourite sexy outfit and put on some makeup. It makes me feel sexy. Not sexually aroused but I do feel sexy. Is that vastly different to what a trans woman feels like when they get dressed up and look (at least in their eyes) like a woman? Could it be that it’s either not AGP and we all feel sexy when we know we look good as the gender we are or want to be…or everyone’s a bit AGP when they think they look sexy because they therefore feel sexy? Or is this a totally unoriginal thought that’s already been troped out by TRAs and actually there is a huge difference??

In answer to the OP, no. I think everyone else has covered the reasons nicely.

I think AAP is much rarer that AGP but I have seen it. Not in the teenage girls identifying as male, but in those transitioning in their 30s and 40s. The ones who describe themselves not as men but as 'cute boys' and the like. They tend to be autistic and with a history of reading/writing gay fanfiction. It does feel like eroticisation of the gay male experience and of imagining themselves as young and male.

(I'm autistic and in some online fan communities where there's a 99% chance of someone with a male username being a trans-identified female. Not all transmen are like that, etc etc, but some certainly come across that way.)

Just tissue 😤I had a mastectomy on one side couple of years ago and it still causes me physical pain off and on. It’s not just tissue!

Or wearing a viking tunic. 'Hmm, warm and cosy' is as much effluent jerkoffing you gonna get.

Just having to Google AGP, realising I'm a dinosaur!

Ah, that's a door that will now never close!

So your strategy was to post something so completely ridiculous everyone is going to disagree, then use this as evidence that people here disagree with... completely ridiculous things? And your purpose was to show that people always disagree with pro trans arguments?
Far be it from me to be critical, but I think your strategy needs work. Because all you've done is shown that posters here are consistent in their disagreement with things that are ridiculous.

Only a man could be turned on by the sight or thought of himself in sexualised womens clothes. Women aren't aroused by their own bodies, we may feel sexy, but we aren't turned on by ourselves.

Over the course of my lifetime I've heard numerous men say "if I had tits for a day I'd never leave them alone". AGP men have taken this to the extent that they imagine they have tits (or fill their bras with breast forms or socks)and get off on it.

They have made themselves, or imagine themselves to be the object of their desire, their perfect version of a woman.

This is male brained behaviour, no ifs, no buts no coconuts.

If by 'beliefs' you mean facts, then no, I'm not willing to budge.

💯 worth repeating.

Having had dealings with a number of teenage girls who believe they are transmen, I'd say their motivation is entirely different from men who believe they are women. For them it tends to be more about discomfort with their changing body, and with the aggressively sexual male gaze, sometimes a reaction to having been sexually assaulted, or to not fitting in with the stereotypical girls eg not being into hair/make up nails.

I think the OP has a point. And I think a lot of women are wilfully naive about this topic and closed off about it.

Perhaps the women on here are mostly just too "old" to relate, but I do think that there are lot of younger women especially whose sexuality revolves around looking and feeling "fuckable", i.e., embodying then female sex object. I've seen a lot of women describe this: that they are turned on by the knowledge/idea that they are turning men on. They seem more invested in the sexual appeal of their own bodies than the sexual appeal of their partners' bodies. It's a strange, almost vicarious sense of sexual satisfaction that I can't relate to at all, but it's reported by a lot of women.

Physical sexual desirability is so closely tied to the female sex object in society that many studies have shown that even heterosexual women are turned on by women's bodies/their own bodies - sometimes moreso than those of men, their ostensible objects of desire. It's like classical conditioning, where the female form has been turned into an almost universal stimulus for arousal. The only group that seems to be immune to this is gay men (though even they perform as/emulate women in drag and many other forms of expression). It makes sense to me that many men, who are generally more sexually driven than women and more prone to objectification, would want to "be" the female-coded sex object as well as desiring it.

Women are not only permitted to embody the feminine sex object, but encouraged and validated for doing so. There's little real space in mainstream culture - outside of the gay scene - for men to "perform" sexiness or be perceived as fuckable.

Yes of course it is different. Feeling sexy is completely different from feeling sexually aroused by a fetish.

Yes, it does: the common ground is being turned on by the perceived capacity of your female/feminine body to turn others (mostly men) on. By one's "fuckability". That's why a lot of the AGP stuff also revolves around being "submissive"/"used"/"fucked". I don't relate to those sexual desires at all, but they are expressed uncomfortably often by other women, so there must be something in it.

Well, I'm 35, so not exactly young. But I think it's fair to say there's on average a divide between how the average woman in, say, her early 20s vs her early 50s perceives and expresses herself sexually. No?

Not just old, but also willfully naive, closed off and - I guess - definitely not "fuckable".

AGP is specifically about men fetishising the idea of being a woman. Nowt to do with women feeling sexy in whatever they wear. And yes, I’m terribly old, but least I understand the difference between a male fetish and females enjoying their bodies.

McSilkson

how does that work logically, when everyone who is 50 was once 17 or 20?? It would appear that generation Z are a lot less promiscuous, as well.

Plus, knowing that you can excite a man, is often quite arousing. That's completely different to being aroused by your own biology.

Part of AGP is men being aroused by buying menstruation kits online and pretending they have periods. Or there have been quite a few lately who are desperate to lactate. So much so that naive twits at LLL are accommodating them.

AGP is the fetishisation of women's oppression, and/or their biology.

It's a paraphilia. And it's male specific.

The symmetry would be women being turned on by the thought of a prostate exam. You can't fetishise men's oppression, because they're not oppressed.

See one of the TRAs upthread who said they want to be fucked like a woman because being fucked is what a woman is.

Again, a lot of words to say "some women have internalised the male gaze so much that they pretty much see themselves through men's eyes".

the difference between a male fetish and females enjoying their bodies

Obviously something that some “young” women don’t understand. Perhaps they’re just sexually immature, or don’t know much about men.

My Aussie friends tell me wombats are very competitive about their poo. If one poops on a step up to your house, the next one passing will plod up the steps to do one higher up, and so on. So if you’ve heard a wombat outside in the night, watch your step. I now wonder if they leave them in little square piles …

To be clear, I don't think looking "fuckable" is something to aspire to. But clearly a lot of women (and quite a lot of men!) do.

I put "old" in inverted commas for a reason. I'm speaking relatively.

But it is seeming like "closed off" may have been an apt descriptor in relation to this topic! I personally think it's an interesting topic worth discussing. What if men were also sexually objectified in mainstream culture and "male sex object" was a legitimate cultural role model for non-gay men? What if men, like women, regularly wore fishnets/mini skirts/high heels/other "sexy" paraphernalia on nights out, without being assumed gay or freaks? Would the prevalence of so-called AGP be significantly less? I think so. It's the taboo and the lack of cultural space for such expression that allows the "fetish" to thrive.

Ah well.

It's an odd one claiming that the longer you live the less you know about sex !!

Plus I thought everyone and his wife knew that women don't even peak until they're virtually on the shelf

Yes. And, by extension, "many men have internalised the male gaze so much that they can only see themselves as sexy by embodying 'sexy' women (as seen through men's eyes)."

That's just the male gaze. Nothing internal about it.

The Rossetti family (including Pre-Raphaelite Dante Gabriel) had a pet wombat that used to sleep in the middle of the table. Apparently it was the inspiration for the dormouse in Alice in Wonderland, because Carroll / Dodgson knew the family.

I can’t remember whether the wombat slept in the teapot or not, though…