Is anyone on here trans-inclusive?

[plinkyplonk123]

Hi everyone, this is just a quick post to ask if anybody else on here is trans inclusive? I know I’m definitely in the minority here but I just wanted to see.

I suppose that makes me trans-inclusive. I don't demonise those who have a difficult enough life anyway. I personally knew 2 (mtf) trans women, met them over 30 years ago, would happily have had them babysit or whatever. Only lost touch when they moved. Took one of them makeup shopping at the start of their transition. Of course, there are some bad apples, but I am damned sure there are a lot more cis/straight than trans sex offenders.

I am trans unconcerned. Does that count?

Reposting this excellent post.

Respecting the inherent rights of everyone to express themselves as they see fit. As long as that isn't harmful to others. That's why boundaries are so important, and, of course, not turning away from the risks of the legality of rights involved in that expression. But personal acceptance is different.

but I am damned sure there are a lot more cis/straight than trans sex offenders.

Well yes, but it's the trans identifying men who want access to women's spaces.

Sex is not 'my' reality. It's just a function of being a species that reproduces sexually.

I can no more say 'agree to disagree' than I could if you wanted us all to organise our lives around the earth being flat.

If your male child said they were female & it upset them & caused them distress if you insisted that they were wrong, would you continue to do it?

I would sincerely hope that they would be able to accept the reality of their sex, as many trans people do.

Or would you try to understand them, avoid causing further upset, keep them safe from harm but also uphold their right to their perception of reality?

You are making trans people sound like people with a schizophrenia diagnosis. If my child had a schizophrenia diagnosis I would do everything I could to protect them from harm, but I wouldn't think they had a right to a different perception of reality - do you really think this right exists?

If I started to say that you have to believe what I do, I would be wrong.

Actually society does function on the basis that we must agree on basic concepts of reality.

Of course I know I have a female body. I am also not female.

That is a logical and linguistic impossibility.

Ok so. That I agree with you on. Everyone should be free to dress and express themselves as they wish, however I would add - within the bounds of the law.

so if you work with trans young people, what do you do if one of them wants a safe space to discuss something traumatising to them?

When you have to resort to such emotive mumbo jumbo language that doesn’t really mean anything you know your argument on how men can be women is very much weak one. Weak being quite generous.

I don't feel the need to include them as women, because they aren't. As humans, fine. Realistically, if they mind their own business and don't force themselves into women's spaces, I mostly ignore people I don't know or have a reason for interacting with, and it would be no different for them.

I love a good 'disingenuous question' thread!
In day-to-day life I treat everyone the same: with common courtesy and respect. I don't care what someone looks like or how people present e.g. if you're a man in a skirt and 'feminine' make-up, a woman with short hair going for a 'masculine' look, a woman in a dress, a man in jeans, whatever.

But men don't belong in women's changing rooms, sports, prisons etc.
Same for women in men's spaces (although it is an interesting point that we hear much less about women wanting to occupy men's spaces and facilities).

So it depends what you're really asking.

Same here!
I have know various trans people over the years and they’re a million miles away from the creepy blokes wanking in women’s changing rooms. Unfortunately a small minority (imposters) let the side down.
The trans people I have been friends with were quite clearly born in the wrong body and it’s been a real battle for them. It’s sad.

That’s not what a trans ally is. Trans allies say transwomen are women, and transmen are men.

Not mocking someone isn’t an ally, is the bare minimum.

You know what, I think this reply has given me what I perhaps came on this thread for, so thank you for that. I have many regrets in life, I wish I'd known I was non-binary when I was young, because I thought I was trans for a long time, even though that didn't feel 'right'. I wish I'd known I was auDHD, I wish I'd had therapy; I don't know though if I would have learned how to manage my CPTSD if I'd had 'easy' answers & that led me not to examine my trauma. I'm trying to learn how to accept the body I'm in, "a house is a machine for living in" is my current brainphrase! I guess if I had a question, it would be around that; do you have any techniques or things that have worked for you around body acceptance? Because it ain't going anywhere & I am grateful for my many privileges.

This seems an unsettling & rather threatening question, I hope I've misconstrued it

im not sure what you’re getting at here but you definitely have misconstrued it

How were they 'born in the wrong body'?

How are women supposed to be able to tell the 'genuine trans' from the 'imposters' when they turn up in their spaces?

And on what level are they imposters anyway? I thought the definition of being trans is to believe you are. Who says the imposters don't believe that about themselves?

Unfortunately a small minority (imposters) let the side down.

They are not imposters. They are as trans as any other trans person. Gender dysphoria is not a prerequisite to be trans.

Ironically, the phrase "a house is a machine for living in" was said by Le Corbusier, who was a massive rationalist.

Anyway...

How does one tell a genuine from an imposter? Women everywhere would thank you for this.

Why do you think single sex spaces exist in the first place? I mean while 98% of the sexual and violent crimes that occur are committed by males, non offending males still outweigh offending males. So why are they segregated?

@ForProudPinkPombear I’m autistic. I’m asking straight questions with no back doors.

What exactly are you trying to imply in your last comment to me?

what in the name of anything is threatening about asking did you say you worked with young people who are trans?

I just wanted to ask - as I already did before you jumped on me - how would you deal with competing rights in your practice.

I was not in any way at all being threatening. That has really really REALLY upset me.

I’ve talked to you reasonably. I think. I haven’t mocked or belittled or anything. I have asked straight questions.

and now you’re making out I have some sort of threat and some sort of prurient and unpleasant interest in trans young people.

fuckksake.

I could just look back but the thread is very long.

I’ve disclosed all sorts without any side doors.

what the actual hell.

im disgusted and upset and devastated. Fuck.

that’s not at all what I meant. Not at all. Jeez.

my university solved that by having a corridor with toilets leading off it, and each individual room had a toilet, sink and hand dryer. Anyone could use them, nobody was at risk of being in there with anyone else. Similar can work perfectly well with changing rooms in shops etc.

That toilet design is not safer for anyone. It is least unsafe for healthy men.

Your university didn’t solve anything. It just made it more likely that anyone having a medical emergency isn’t likely to be rescued in time. Why isn’t anyone at risk of being in there with anyone else? How else do you think children and women are assaulted in private designed toilets in very public places?

They are scientifically proven to contain more pathogens too.

However if you want to misuse a toilet (hidden cameras, sex, drugs etc) that’s the design to go for.

I am actually fucking stunned.

im genuinely sitting here shaking at the inference.

I would never ever ever mean that not ever.

is this some sort of tactic to be able to report me or something? What the fuck.

I didn't read your post like that, but I honestly think there's been some crossed wires here. I think @ForProudPinkPombear has misinterpreted is all.

I can tell you're upset but I think that @ForProudPinkPombear has not come from a bad place in the same way that I don't think your post came from a bad place either.

Hi @plinkyplonk123 just a quick question to ask if you have actually looked at the research (and by that I do not mean the flawed WPATH literature which does not stand up to scientific scrutiny) but rather the in-depth Cass Report. .
Regarding the Mumsnet community, I think you’d struggle to find a mum on here who does not support confused, possibly autistic, possibly traumatised, possibly gay, most likely bullied adolescents and young people who have low self esteem and who have failed to build a sense of identity in their teens.
If that is you @plinkyplonk123 then there is support available and I would recommend that you see your GP for psychotherapy which is holistic. Do not go to a private gender clinic as they are not interested in the root cause of your dysphoria but are just interested in churning out prescriptions and turning you into a lifelong patient.

if you fall into this category of ROGD youth then I am very sorry that you are suffering. Please know that the majority of us here have your best and long term interests at heart.

It’s the G&T, isn’t it?