SNP in secret attempt to challenge Supreme Court ruling on sex

[Igneococcus]

I couldn't despise those fecking weasels more if I tried:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/89b42f06-fc36-4f06-98b1-d7b93c175463?shareToken=e40f182647b48214917896a4ae34328b

Politics is a heck of a dirty business.

But then the question moves to why the actual fuck the Greens are so desperately invested in getting cock into women’s spaces instead.

This needs to be pasted onto billboards ahead of the next election.

An instruction from the court to the Scottish govt, that the Scottish govt are asking for? Or an instruction to the Westminister govt?

Looking at recent polling, it occurs to me to wonder what Reform's position is on the Scotland Act? I hold no candle for Reform but while the SNP, Greens & others are still apparently mad as frog trifle when it comes to giving criminal males access to female prisoners, it seems reasonable to ask.

As a tiny party, the Greens are vulnerable to entryism. The people who want penises in women's prisons are using the Greens as a vehicle to achieve that and don't actually give a fuck about the environment, human rights, or any of the proper Green issues.

Essentially the Scottish government is seeking to have the court tell the Westminster government the some element of the EA2010 is incompatible with the British state’s human rights obligations and must be changed.

This is only if the court upholds the judicial review and agrees with FWS that the EA2010 forbids male prisoners in the women’s estate.

It makes no sense. Even if, and it's a very big if, a declaration of incompatibility is issued the UK Govt are hardly likely to pay attention to a lower Scottish court over the decision of the UK Supreme Court. And anyway, FWS will just appeal the case all the way back to the Supreme Court who will sigh in despair and say We've already considered this issue, go away. And then what? The Scottish Government will be in exactly the same position as before, they can't take it any further as only individuals - not the state - cant take a case to Strasbourg.

Are they just trying to muddy the waters and sow the seeds of doubt in Labour in the hope they'll take the initiative and amend the Equality Act to meet Scotgov's demands?

I'd love to see the legal reasoning behind that assertion. It would match Big Sond's Peggie vs Fife for creativity.

Didn't FWS vs Scottish Ministers examine human rights compatibility?

On what grounds does someone born with a penis have a right to considered as a suitable inmate for the female prison estate?

IANAL but Scot gov doesn't have to put them in prisons according to their biological sex as described in this article.

The SC ruling is just that they aren't allowed to put say a transwoman in a women's prison or a trans man in a men's prison (even with a GRC).

Because sex = biological sex in the law so womens only means biological women only.

There could be for examples, a transwoman prison or a transmen prison. So there is no incompatibility.

Edit - at any rate there are competing rights. Sure transgender have right to private life etc. but that doesn't override others' rights as SC covered.

It honestly sounds like a “going down with the ship” sort of move whose principal benefit is to virtue signal to the home crowd. You’re right that the SC considered human rights aspects in FWS, and it would be brave subordinate court that would go against that.

Alternatively, perhaps the Scottish government has thought of some stellar legal argument that nobody else has spotted up till now. Who knows.

in any event, we may not be signatories to the ECHR for that much longer, so it will be moot.

Imagine doing this and getting caught doing this and thinking you can keep it quiet. And how it looks to a public who don't believe this shite and will be unimpressed.

Imagine doing this and winning at doing this. And knowing if you win it will become headline news, which is pretty dim because you know the public don't believe tthis shite and will be unimpressed.

Imagine doing this, losing getting caught doing it and the public going WTAF do you think you are actually playing at you fucking sexism women betraying bastards.

Theres literally no scenario that works out well. You have to be so utterly devoted and blinkered to the reality that you hate women to the point of wanting to actively do this in public view.

Starting from the SC ruling it identified that the Act in law means that sex means biological sex.

So if this publication is true (which i doubt) then the Scot’s government are seeking a declaration of incompatibility of the EQA, with human rights article 8, not the SC ruling.

they would have to show that European Human rights conferred upon trans people the right to use opposite sex facilities, which it does not. There is no case law on this matter.

Further more article 8 is qualified not absolute which means that domestic law has wide scope to determine its own policy on such matters.

its just utter nonsense.

Scotgov may well be doing a Sandy Kemp and just asserting trans prisoners have these convention rights, and similarly not bothering with such trivialities as sound reasoning or applicable case law.

I find it hard to get my head around these appalling people. No heart, no brain, no courage, indeed. But sadly not just a movie.

I dont think what they are doing is any different than what Labour is doing but in a different way.

They are trying to make out that to implement the Supreme Court ruling is unfair, discrimatory to trans people. So breaches equality

And as such such not be implemented literally.

For a start both Governments could get round this by for instance just renaming prisons as being based on gender identity.

The ruling only said that if the word woman was used in relation to the EA has to mean biological women.

But as with the impetus to do this the underlying fact is that all these people are determined that even though it is only belief, all of us are meant to accept that self identity is the same as biology.

If it wasn't so seriious, it would be like a farce.

It is the relentless demand that we must all be subserviant to the gender identity religion. Non believers will be punished.

For a start both Governments could get round this by for instance just renaming prisons as being based on gender identity.

And promptly get taken to court again for discriminating against women by endangering our safety.

And promptly get taken to court again for discriminating against women by endangering our safety.

No it would just come down to the situation we currently have which is using a cost benefit analysis. More women's services are being cut because of the representation that women only it too expensive to provide. More women's services have been lost to this financial arguement, than any that have closed because of excluding trans women.

By not using the word women, those who want services based on the word women as per the court ruling would be asked to provide a financial arguement for it that it is worth the cost.

They all use this. Local councils to cut women only services, the NHS to not provide single sex wards, etc..

ie we would be back to is it "proportionate" to provide single sex services, within the totality of service provision.

The only one that may remain as being legally implemented will be workplace provision of single sex toilets.

I don't foresee the closure of women's prisons on cost grounds.

I don't foresee the closure of women's prisons on cost grounds.

I didn't say that. I gave the analogy of what is happening to women's support services.

They cease to get funding if the stick to strict women only aims.

But get funding to carry on the service if it is transinclusive.

No prisons would be closed. There aren't enough anyway.

They will do some fake survey and find out most women prisoners dont care, or some such, and the policy, based on costs arguement become trans inclusive.

Scottish Parliament is a devolved government right? Maybe it's about time Westminster took that power away from them. I don't think they deserve it quite frankly. The Scottish people deserve better. Although tbf our current Labour Government isn't exactly better I suppose.

Can Westminster send the bailiffs in to recover the money that's owed to FWS for their Supreme Court costs?

Or provide the UK government with just the excuse they need to change the Act.

That would be political suicide IMO.

Imagine what the Tories and Reform would make of it.

Now imagine doing that just before the elections.

Do these people actually want Reform to sweep the board?

They don't care the polls say they're going to win, so they can do whatever they want.