Mumsnet is now backing Reform UK - survey

[IwantToRetire]

The ladies are for turning after all – as a new survey reveals that one in five of the politically engaged mothers on the social networking site are ready to pledge allegiance to Nigel Farage

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/mumsnet-labour-reform-school-gates-keir-starmer-b2894524.html

Also in full at https://archive.is/V5P6n

"...every boat person I've met has been ambitious, urban, educated..."
I'm sure that's a great comfort to the grieving family of the woman killed by an illegal with a screwdriver.
Every time I read a comment like that, I move closer to voting Reform.

Why would it be? That's not the point of the observation, he's talking about why there is so much more movement now than there used to be.

Why do you say that? He's saying everyone he meets off a boat etc is educated and well behaved, by inference a benefit to the country he's travelled to.
He's repeating the "all illegals are doctors and engineers" trope we have wheeled out every time there's a pro and anti discussion on letting illegals stay.
The reasons there's more movement to the West is both the increasing numbers in and of itself, and the simple stat "the EU and GB has 10% of the world's population, 25% of the GDP, and 60% of the benefits spend"

The author is including that comment to prove that it's actually not true but is a widespread belief held in Liberal US circles. His article discusses the multi-generational problems caused to the US by low-skilled immigrants who don't integrate or contribute to the tax base.

Edited: spelling

Onr problem is that most voters really don't understand the immigration system. They only see its effects.

So they'll see their communities changing very rapidly, but there's a widespread assumption (even among left wingers who think there should be basically infinite immigration!) that most immigration to the UK is illegal, and it's incredibly difficult to immigrate legally. This gets the whole thing backwards.

The small boats are a political problem because they're an emblem of uncontrolled borders and a political class not really interested in dealing with the problem. But they're relatively minor in the scheme of things. The objectively bigger problem - which should be easier to deal with - is Boris Johnson and Priti Patel playing silly buggers with the points system and deliberately ramping up low-skill immigration to record levels to power the Deliveroo economy.

The other big problem is politicians lying to voters. Okay, mostly they obfuscate rather than lie directly. Labour and Lib Dem politicians like to pretend that immigration is all about staffing the NHS. Boris wibbled on about high-skill immigration, giving the impression that we were bringing in scientists and surgeons, when he knew perfectly well that student visas were being used on a massive scale to bring people in, not with offer letters from Oxbridge, but with offer letters from Raj's Totally Legit Diamond Geezer School of Business, and once they were here they disappeared into the black economy.

But they're still lying. And voters know they're lying.

It doesn't really matter what academics and experts want.
British voters have made it plain they object to the kind of mass migration we particularly had with the Boriswave, but more generally for two decades, absolutely no to the levels of illegal immigration over the last few years, a no to asylum hotels and putting illegals in social housing or HMOs.
Even if every last illegal was a peace loving doctor, engineer, poet etc, the attitude would be the same.
It's evident that this is most consistent with Tory and Reform voters, but a plurality in left voters as well.
It's about the most binary issue in British, and likely Western politics, across the range.
Of course, very few illegals are doctors, engineers and poets, and as unvetted individuals, the risks are there to be seen.
Politicians are meant to serve us, not the other way around, although politicians can certainly campaign to change the way of thinking of the populace, and then enact new popular policies.
Until that happens with mass migration and especially illegals, govt needs to heed the wishes of the electors, now ignored en masse for 15-20 years, illegals especially over 5 years.
Reform are claiming they'll finally be the party that is at one with a plurality of voters, especially on illegal migration, and will finally enact the people's wishes.
If this is the act of the far right, ten I must be a far right sympathiser.
And how many other tens of millions?

I think that you are misreading 'urban' as 'urbane'.

But, but, but...according to the left, every irregular (as they see it) migrant is a highly qualified doctor or engineer, peacenik poet, so all we need to do is have an orderly queue from Dover to our hospitals, building sites, and universities Creative Writing depts.

Tbh, the activist left write so much crap about illegal migration, it's very easy to get the odd word wrong, lol.

No, I don't think that is what he is getting at at all.

He is saying that overall, the whole world is more educated, wealthier, and more urban, than they ever have been. Including in the developing areas of the world.

Many people had shitty lives in the past and might have wanted to get away from them. but the reality of those lives did not include migrating. They didn't have the knowledge of where to go, or the means to try.

Now, many people can see where they could go for better opportunities, and they can imagine making a life there. They have some skills and they can find some funds. Or, if not personally, their extended family can put together the money to try and send one person.

That middle group, worldwide, is huge now compared to what it used to be, and the ability to get information is so expanded.

It's funny, you see people argue this stuff, but then you go about your life and see that the local Walmart, McDonalds, and every security job is suddenly staffed by people who have only been here a few years.

I've had many rsumes dropped off in my workplace from students finishing their courses desperate to find a job so they can stay on. Nice kids, but they have degrees in hospitality or sometimes IT and are applying for part time minimum wage jobs. Not in healthcare. This is in a small town way in the boonies.

It's completely obvious if you just move around in the world that this is going on, do they expect people won't notice?

I'm not saying they're not. I'm saying it doesn't matter if it was only the middle classes and most highly qualified coming over.
I'm saying that a plurality of Brits want illegal migration dealt with.
If the Tories and now Labour haven't/won't, and you certainly know LDs, Greens, YP certainly wouldn't, don't be surprised if this gets Reform over the line.
And certainly don't call Brits far right for voting for a party that most coincides with their sentiments.
When Tik Tok videos and the gang masters tell potential illegals that Europe and especially Britain bend over backwards not to deport you if you arrive illegally, and housing is provided in the UK on entry, legal advice aplenty, plurality of Brits know this has to change. Not all Brits of course, they have Polanski, Corbyn Sultana, and Swinney to vote for who are all happy to ignore the other, impatient Brits, and use the full force of the administrative state and legal/charity blob against their wishes.

Yes, but he was just saying why more people were coming. Your point is irrelevant.

You don't think this journalist is reporting his opinions, and inferring that if only migrant skeptics in the countries these people are coming to knew how educated and civilised they were, there would be less antipathy, and they'd be welcomed more?
FWIW, I can see why he'd have this opinion. I can see why observing this demographic would mean if you were of a liberal persuasion, you'd send very few back.
Right now Spain is about to Merkel-style give a blanket amnesty and citizenship track to 500k illegals. Maybe this will be the new testbed for this culture war.
If it works out for Spain, Polanski will be able to point to them, and say the UK should do the same.

Government say that we need immigration to fill vacancies at the bottom, high skills at the top, and doctors and nurses in the NHS. We also need them to prop up our universities.

All of that might be true. But all of that should have been temporary.

Lots of low skill work is being replaced by technology, if our universities are so good, why are we importing talent from abroad? We are expected to work longer than ever, are more educated, more willing to move around the country. The work force is there, just not as cheap as business want it to be.

The problem is that politicians are now focusing on the boats, when thats just something that should never have happened in the first place, and reducing the number legal immigration each year, while the problem is the number of immigrants already here.

It's difficult to recruit people to be prison officers. The pay is quite high because the job is shitty and sometimes dangerous.

It now turns out that about 20% of prison officers in England are West Africans. I don't mean Brits of West African heritage, I mean people who have immigrated in recent years from Nigeria or Ghana.

This is a recent thing, and it seems to have happened very quietly. There hasn't been any public discussion about whether this is what the prison service needs, or whether it's been a contributing factor to failures in the service.

Are these migrants paid the same high rates of pay as their British counterparts?
I have to say, of all the high risk public servant/emergency service type jobs out there, prison officer is the last one I'd choose.
I had heard that a lot of these African prison officers were paid poorly, we're living in their cars etc. Doesn't correlate to being highly paid.

Yes and to be more specific this system provided at the expense of the taxpayer is specifically attracting criminals. Why are there so many young Afghan men and no women when the women are the ones suffering human rights abuses in their own countries? Because they're actually quite able and they're exploiting the system. There are a number of men who've raped children in this country who have committed similar crimes previously often in other EU states. They are actually relatively well off and competent criminals. It's bonkers they are not identified at point of entry and just put up in hotels then when they rape a British child and ruins their life everyone in the ruling classes just effectively shrugs their shoulders (and provides MORE state money to provide a public defender, hold a trial and then maybe eventually give them money to leave). People have had enough. We want our kids protected, we want risk reduction and risk assessments. We don't want towns where girls are essentially having their freedom of movement restricted for safety reasons.

The victim of the man given £500 to leave the UK (who was released from prison by mistake) said she felt he'd been paid £500 to assault her by the government. I don't think that's an unreasonable take from that girl. Both the government and the media seemed to focus on the man and the political fall out but completely utterly ignored the victim. I note she wasn't paid £500 for counselling. No doubt she'll be told to go on an NHS waiting list, fat lot of good that will be. I note also that many grooming gang survivors have stated they've had zero help from the NHS and have had to turn to charities to get help to rebuild their lives.

Listening to Laila Cunningham recently she made the excellent point that not all immigrants are equal. She said you never here of Ukrainian rape gangs, do you? You don't, because they don't exist. She also made the point that Ukranian immigrants came over via the legal route predominantly. This is a conversation we need to have. I don't want this country ever fuller of men who think women should be slaves and this abhorrent viewpoint labelled a 'cultural difference'

All these criminals who've seen an easy system to exploit are displacing genuine refugees in need who will come and want to work and stay and build a better society. Afghan women for a start. No-one would object to a centre full of Afghan women because they won't pose a risk to the girls in the local town will they? The current system is being played like a fiddle by male criminals who want to take all they can from the UK and its population and I doubt have much intention to stay here once their grift is done.

I feel for genuine migrants, I really do. But unfortunately everything you list here are reasons this has to stop dead, and be absolutely reassessed as to what suits our nation and it's citizens.
Again, the left have refused all the way along to have any rational discussion on costs risks benefits, simply seeing everybody (every body) as a net benefit, any cultural disconnect issues to be borne by the host popular, since it's Britain that have been the aggressors and cultural locust horde historically.
I've literally heard liberal female British activists state that they know amongst those coming over are large numbers of rapists and paedophiles, at very least large numbers with entrenched sexist and homophobic attitudes, yet the state must go all out to re educate and integrate them.
Because the left will not budge on this, the Brits will have to vote in a govt that will make them budge.

The other thing that doesn't get discussed is that yes, some of the men that come here illegally and attack children come from different cultures (and we really don't want to import their thinking) but there may well be fewer real consequences from their perspective to raping children here. Partly because girls are not seen as property of another potentially violent man who might be inclined to kill you (and seen as completely reasonable for doing so) if you harm his property.

Yes, men can rape and marry female children in Afghanistan (in total violation of human rights law) but if you aren't content with abusing just one female child and you rape someone else's property, especially a more powerful man's property, you're likely to face more significant consequences than being put up by HMP for a short while or given £500 to go home. Probably not through the legal system of course. The girl will probably be blamed more than the man and murdered, of course, so it'll be a lot worse for her but it may also be more consequential for the beta male.

Some of the countries where recent child rapists have come from have the death penalty, yes even for rape in the right circumstances.

We have an aging society which will rapidly deteriorate if we don't replace retiring workers because, roughly speaking, workers pay for little things like pensions (private and state), health care, emergency services, armed forces, schools,...

The speed with which immigration is reduced determines how quickly we further reduce our collective standard of living. Having seen our political tantrum called brexit, I am certain we will vote for another short term warm feeling in our underwear before regretting it later.

How do you get out of a kind of ponzi effect where those who arrive grow old and more need to replace them?

Does the population just need to keep going up?

This theory of immigration, much beloved by the CBI, is a bit like the Elvis theory of pharmaceuticals that says if one aspirin does you some good, twenty aspirin will do you lots of good.

Plus, if (il)legal migrants who arrive aren’t going on to working in jobs that pay enough to attract income tax liability or if they’re working in the black economy, they’re not contributing to our tax base so why should we allow them to stay 🤔 And, if they’re willing to work for lower wages, they’re undercutting the ability of the existing working class to get better pay in less salubrious jobs.

Unless middle class salaries/opportunities/communities are under threat, I can’t see the bien pensant lefties changing their minds on migration and the lowering of wages benefits the capitalist class so they won’t complain either.

In the meantime, working class communities and social/familial networks are undermined and nobody in charge cares cos it’s no skin off their nose what happens to plebs.

Its never been a serious long term policy.

To work, immigrants would have to work and not recieve any benefits, and leave before they get to pensionable age.

We'd have to have to give people fixed term, strictly enforce visas. To live and work in this country and not recieve benefits they wouldnt be doing low wage work. Its work that people in this country want to do.

Also, it would still create housing problems and pressure on the nhs.

It was always about keeping wages low for businesses.