How is the trans issue ever going to be resolved?

[PassportPanicFuuuck]

It seems as insoluble as the Israel/Palestine question when the two "sides" want directly opposing things. I've heard the arguments that trans people "just want to pee" and that "no-one would go through medical/surgical gender reassignment purely to abuse women", plus the mantras that "trans people exist", "trans rights are human rights" and "trans women are women" and it's quite clear that the people who believe these things fervently aren't going to change their minds any time soon.

But to a certain extent, life isn't fair. Not everyone does have equal opportunities. If you're in a gay relationship (and there's nothing wrong with that) you can't have a biological child with your partner; if you're infertile (as I am) you can't have a child at all; if you're trans (and there's nothing wrong with that either) you can't enter the spaces of the opposite sex; if you're British you don't have an automatic right to go and live in the US; if you're short and unsporty you don't have a right to be on the Olympic basketball team - and so on. All sorts of opportunities are denied people at various different points, some as a result of decisions you make (like not studying for a medical degree means I can never be a doctor) and some not (see above re. infertility), and beyond universal human rights you don't have a right - one might say "entitlement" - to an awful lot of things, much as you might keenly want them.

Like it or not, once we end up in these categories we have to accept it. Absolutely no-one is eligible to do everything or to go everywhere. However if you have made a choice - even if you consider it to be more a recognition of something innate rather than a conscious decision - it doesn't mean that you have made this choice on behalf of everyone else. If you have chosen to transition (again, you may not consider it to be a "choice") you can't dictate that everyone else ignore biology and logic and linguistic authenticity and you can't dictate that everyone else will want to celebrate your decision. No, we don't have to accept the "lady bulge", we don't have to accept child abuse under the guise of gender-affirming care and we don't have to accept men in female sports / changing rooms / organisations.

Not sure how coherently worded all the above is, but perhaps it will provoke some interesting debate.

Itll stop me having a panic attack when I hear a man on the other side of door. It will enable me to access rape counselling.

but who gives a fuck

What? Why would women get beaten up in female toilets? Was this happening before men started demanding access to female spaces? I don’t think so, so why would they get beaten up if we don’t let men in? And if men are uncomfortable with non cis men in male spaces, that’s on men. Go educate them in being kind and budging up. Or maybe all those women advocating foe mixed sex spaces could volunteer to accompany and protect non cis men in the gents. Win win right?

How is it not cozplay? It is literally presenting as something you are not.

I have zero interest in whether men use the toilets intended for their sex or other unisex options. They just aren’t welcome in the ladies. HTH.

I repeat my post earlier on in this thread: Transwomen are not at any risk in the mens. There has never been one case of a transwoman or even 'nonbinary' person being attacked in the men's. In fact, many transwomen say they have no problems using the mens, even made up fully as a woman. The worst they get, apparently, is a smirk. They're not in any danger. Actually there is a transwoman on twitter who has videos of them entering the mens, even at the urinals. No problemo!! None at all. Proving it can be done. Men pee, shake and go. They don't even look at others in there.

And, when you consider effeminate gay men have used the mens for decades, and never once complained about it or tried to use the ladies, the argument that transwomen are not safe in the mens or for some reason can't use them, falls completely apart.

Lastly, that women duck into the mens when the queue for the ladies is so long, and have no problems, show there is no danger.
So your 'passing' transwomen are in danger in the mens argument FALLS APART.

And even if it were true, ( which as I PROVED, it isn't) women are NOT HUMAN SHIELDS for men in a dress. They can advocate for third spaces, which is what we have suggested for a DECADE! If it were really about safety, they'd eagerly embrace a safe space of their own. But it never was about safety, and you know it. It's only about validation. You don't get to come on here, tell us a fox with some feathers stuck on him is 'unsafe' with other foxes, so you are putting him in the hen house. Women say NO to that. They accept a third space, or nothing at all. Women are not, and NEVER WILL BE human shields for the male species. Not now, NOT EVER! Understand?!?

Lastly, it is not just about safety. It's about privacy and dignity away from the male gaze.

A rogue 'not' appeared here, I mean trans people didn't choose to be trans. Apologies.

I mean why would anyone choose to be trans. It's so much hassle.

I missed that gem!

People with Schizophrenia have always existed. People with anorexia and all other mental illnesses have always 'eXiStEd'. That doesn't mean we pander to them.

Males 'exist'. That doesn't mean they can enter female spaces. All males, no matter how they identify, must obey the law, and the social contract - to stay out of female only single sex spaces. They are NOT above...the...law. It's really that simple.

Hang on, so GNC women are now beaten up routinely in women's toilets but transwomen are still safer there, supposedly? So, if we, supposedly, can't distinguish between transwomen and GNC women why is one set of them now routinely beaten up and the other one isn't? It's almost (if that were true) as if we can distinguish between GNC women and transwomen.

Of course people choose to be trans. Because it’s all about the choice you make about your self perception.

A man who prefers stereotypical “feminine” things in society. Decides he won’t be told that what he likes defines him, makes a choice to be a GNC man.

A man who prefers stereotypical “feminine” things in society. Decides it makes him a woman, makes a choice to call himself trans.

They choose to be trans because its the celebrated in fad and gives them so many privileges others don't have. It's a choice. It's mostly (at least for males) a sexual fetish. It's AGP.

Being trans is not a mental illness. Minorities don't need your permission to exist.

Sex offenders don't observe a 'social contract'. Pretending we can reduce our exposure to rape by turning on minority women is delusion, sorry.

No one is turning on minority women. They’re saying men don’t belong in female spaces. Males claiming a trans identity are by your logic, non cis men, so belong in male spaces HTH.

They aren’t “minority women” they are men. Many actual “minority women” require women only spaces for their privacy, dignity and personal religious needs.

I don't know, you tell us.

Because there is always the option of being gender non conforming.

Insisting on opposite sex pronouns and using opposite sex spaces is most definitely a choice

If it's not an illness why the need for massive medical interventions, at least for teenage girls, middled aged men who suddenly discover they really are a woman don't seem to be told they need to chop their genitals off?

Yes it is. Gender Dysphoria is in the DMV. And if you are going to say some don't have Gender Dysphoria, then you are ADMITTING it's a choice. And if it weren't a mental illness, you/they would not weaponise and threaten suicide to get their way. You can't even pick a lane and stay in it with regard to arguments.

MALES are not a 'minority'. Even in a dress, that male is part of the predator and oppressor sex class. They 'eXiSt' as MALES.

Those that don't observe the social contract are STANDING OUT as sex offenders, and that means they are predators. That's the point.
Pretending we can reduce break ins by locking our doors at night is delusion, sorry.
Pretending we can reduce speeding by enforcing speed limits is delusion, sorry.

We don't throw our hands up in the end and have a lawless society. Your arguments are immature and ill thought out.

No one is turning on women. We are turning on MALES.

Again:

If being trans isn’t a mental illness, why do children need hormones to irrevocably change their bodies?

If it’s not an illness why do they get medical treatment?

trans identifying women are not men and trans identifying men are not women.

Men aren't a minority.

And no we can't stop all rapists. That doesn't mean we just abandon safeguarding for women as a result.

I wonder if people even hear themselves as they make that argument. It's so extraordinarily callous. 'Oh it's hard to ensure women's safety, so let's not even try'. I mean ffs 🤦‍♀️

There’s such a false equivalence in that first paragraph of what you quoted isn’t there.

Why even have speed limits? Someone is always going to speed, and the police can't be on the road on every road 24/7. Why bother with speed limits? I mean, it's not like we can enforce them anyway. Speeders and hoons will always 'eXiSt'. Lets do away with all speed limits, I say! If a person wants to go through a housing estate at 110 miles per hour, you can't stop them. Why why bother? It's delusion.

You do know trans men exist, right?

Through my children, I know a few young trans women. Not one of them has the support of their families, all are struggling to find work and they've experienced street violence.

Yet they're happy, have partners and friends. They have a basic contentment due to living as themselves.

Calling them 'men' and being deeply hostile to them doesn't alter any of that. Aggression solves absolutely nothing.

Again, no one would be trans unless it meant everything to them. I hope you can understand the sacrifices, very real danger and discrimination involved in them living as themselves

I had said that trans identifying individuals exist.

I think you made a mistake in your first sentence?

Can you please show where I have been aggressive. Thanks.

can you please explain why trans identifying individuals should not be expected to obey the law. Thank you.