Mixed sex toilets are terrifying for women but just a laugh for men.

[CrocsNotDocs]

I can enjoy a good fart joke but this “hilarious” anecdote by cricket commentator David “Bumble” Lloyd left me cold. Men really have no idea of the fear women have of mixed sex facilities.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3843028419327926/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e

If the link doesn’t work, it’s a viral, supposedly hilarious account of David going into a mixed-sex loo for a poo and letting off a loud fart. The lady in the cubicle next to him calls out “Is that you Maureen”.

From David’s point of view, (and pretty much every man and “cool girl” on the planet) he thinks that Maureen must be such a regular farter that her friend thinks the fart noise just has to be her.

I suspect most women would read this situation differently- Maureen’s friend has realised she was half naked inches away from a strange man and is calling out anxiously to her friend to make sure she isn’t alone.

I’m wondering what this board’s thoughts would be. Am I just looking to hard into an anecdote or is men’s complete obliviousness a big issue when it comes to mixed sex facilities.

Women repeatedly saying they are fine with mixed sex spaces and don't see the need are helping the narrative that all women feel this way, to help along the overturning of the SCJ. And many are doing it quite intentionally as activists.

Forgive me for being somewhat anxious about this due to the impact upon me and all the other women who are not ok, and wanting women to take responsibility for their actions and words and the impact of them - because most are not innocent of all this - and also for being somewhat impatient with the thoughtlessness it takes to do a 'oh but I'm all right so what's the prob' posts without mentioning too that no, not all women are fine, not all women are as privileged as them, and that making everything mixed sex will exclude women less fortunate than her. It's not a good or nice thing to do. And 'oh but it's just my opinion' does not make it any better.

Women who don't get this yet really need to keep in mind, as with disability, every woman is only ever a day away from an experience that may change her life and make single sex resources something she desperately needs and cannot access society without.

Assuming there are single sex facilities are available. Sometimes there now aren't. Some schools, for example, have made their toilets all mixed sex, and in the new Manchester Aviva studios mixed sex is the only option. Furthermore they are open to the central public atrium and everyone can see you washing your hands ( shared basins not legally compliant)

I hate the idea of mixed sex toilets.

I went to a university and the only toilets I could find were mixed sex. As somebody who had recently suffered a sexual assault I found the whole thing quite traumatic.

Toilets should be a female safe space I can't believe this is even up for discussion.

Every home has a mixed sex toilet!

You don’t speak for me, either.

I absolutely hate mixed sex toilets and definitely don't want men anywhere near me when toileting for my own female privacy and personal safety and that of other women and girls.

If toilets are going to be made mixed sex then they need to be expensively rebuilt to high minimum refurb standards to deter the male fetishists who get off on hearing women piss, shit, change sanitary pads etc- which these men then fish out of the sanitary bin and wank over or keep and wear.. not to mention them installing spy cameras in mixed sex toilets. Men looking to do sexual assaults and voyeurism must be so happy to have idiots arguing in favour of mixed sex toilets..

I mean the list is endless of what a creepy man can get obsessed with and no sane woman ever wants a man like that at close quarters in a private space that she can be locked into.

Loads of women have no idea what can happen and if this hasn’t ever affected them then they are just very lucky not to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You don't share your home toilet with random and unknown strangers, and most home toilets are single occupancy and have a lock on them...even from family.

Which is communal multiple occupancy and shared with random strangers!

They were just being pedantic and deliberately missing the point. My point was a toilet should be single sex. We have all grown up knowing toilets are single sex for a reason. A mixed sex toilet is men in women's spaces and vice versa

I can't believe people still say this. Really? Do you let random strangers into your house to use the toilet?

Yes and we all leave our home toilets open for complete strangers to hang about in as they please, don’t we…

Please do not feel the need to explain to the menz who are, after all, only here for the lolz.

Can you see what the problem is with women's spaces yet?

Honestly.

Mixed sex toilets with urinals.

Yeah I find those pretty terrifying especially if you don't realise before you walk in and are then confronted with two blokes pissing in full view.

(In Belgium not the UK thankfully).

Although the toilet arrangements in Cloudwater's tap room in Manchester could do with demolishing.as they are nearly as bad.

Excellent!

Should we all be publishing our addresses so that everyone passing can enter to use our toilet? Or have you begun to realise that this was not the ‘gotcha’ you thought it was?

Geez, are people still dragging out the "everyone has a unisex toilet at home" argument? It was fecking stupid the first time someone used it, it's beyond idiotic now.

It's the typical response given by people who have not bothered to engage their brain with actual, real life situations.

I don’t understand why I should be more worried about men in a mixed sex toilet than I am anywhere else!

I think it is very disconcerting to be in a mixed sex toilet grouping with only male people around.

I also find mixed sex toilets in a professional situation where you might know the man in the next toilet concerning.

Also those which have entrances hidden from public view, but conversely those which directly open to public view.

In general, I am extremely uncomfortable hearing there is a man in the toilet cubicle beside me. Because usually those cubicles are poorly constructed and you can sounds and if I hear a man coughing or talking etc, it causes me to be on high alert.

There are numerous situations where it can cause female people distress at only having to use mixed sex toilets. I didn’t find the joke funny at all when I think about it.

Yes.

And again adding the gentle suggestion that perhaps lucky women who don't get this might like to open their eyes a little, do a little reading and listening to other women who are less lucky, and gain some understanding of why many women feel this way and have those needs.

You may not need the guide dog; that does not mean anyone needing a guide dog is doing something wrong and could do without it if they just tried a bit harder to be like you.

Seriously?

Are you often to be found with your knickers down in public?

I think that we are beginning to see the ramifications of women declaring that they don’t mind [insert action here] coming through in court cases. Where it has been assumed that because some women ‘don’t mind’ who they are sharing spaces with, that lack of complaint is agreement.

How many times will we see ‘but no one complained’ used to justify either male inclusion into single sex provisions or the loss of single sex provisions to make way for mixed sex provisions? All because those women who ‘didn’t mind’ dismissed those women who did.

I hate mixed sex loos. Obviously once in the cubicle (with full height doors etc) it’s private but it’s the facilities which have in-between part that’s the problem for me - the Costa Coffee style unisex direct off public space is better/ok.

For me the problem is going into a waiting space in front of the cubicles (which is often behind a fire door and isolated from the other public spaces) only to discover a group of men waiting. Or worse just one man. I leave if that’s what I find as Im not keen on standing alone in a soundproof room prior to disrobing with unknown blokes. I find it to be an unnecessary risk. I think the services who arrange toilets in this way are thoughtless and irresponsible.

The worst on I saw was in a Pret A Manger where the door to the loos was down a corridor away from the main area. On opening i discovered 3 swarthy looking blokes waiting in a claustrophobic lobby. I was with DD and to wait in that space would have been very “cosy” indeed. I reversed out - relieved that I hadn’t sent DD off to the loos on her own and wondering how this new arrangement will potentially curtail her independence.

The better arrangement I saw was at Kings College London where there was a vision panel on the door from the main space to the lobby in front of the cubicles. So you can see who is in there before entering. The lobby was fairly generous so you could navigate the space without having to brush past people. I was still surprised when a bloke walked in as I was leaving though - it’s just an unecessary anxiety.

The worst I’ve seen was an illegal mixed sex facility at a theatre where urinals weee behind a screen at the back of the space and the rest of the room were cubicles without floor to ceiling walls and with gaps around the doors. The interval queue was of course huge and all the women were queuing up and I really disliked the men all milling around at the same time. DD was paranoid someone would see her through the door gap which had bothered me less but she had a point. It had all been ok when very busy but I’d have hated it if I’d been alone in there with one or two blokes at a quiet moment.

It’s not dissimilar to being alone with one male on a tube carriage or in one of the lifts. I’m never entirely happy but the risks seem less because there’s usually CCTV and a very short exposure time - and most importantly without the need to undress!

So for the woman in OP’s anecdote - if it were me - I’d not care about the bloke inside his cubicle but I’d really rather not encounter him in the lobby afterwards. Especially if the loos were at some distance from any other people.

To be clear i often work alone with men in workplaces and am often the only woman in the room or building so im not a prude or scared of men generally. But I do assess risk as it’s part of my job and I can’t help doing it elsewhere - those who aren’t bothered probably haven’t thought it through. Maybe they are the same sort of people who don’t take fire precaution measures at home etc Si that doesn’t worry them because they’ve never thought about that either.

My work or other situations are more qualified risks and not at all the same as the mixed sex toilet lobbies which I loathe

And you won’t mind sharing your address so we can make it known that all and sundry are welcome to use it?