Mixed sex toilets are terrifying for women but just a laugh for men.

[CrocsNotDocs]

I can enjoy a good fart joke but this “hilarious” anecdote by cricket commentator David “Bumble” Lloyd left me cold. Men really have no idea of the fear women have of mixed sex facilities.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/3843028419327926/?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&fs=e&fs=e

If the link doesn’t work, it’s a viral, supposedly hilarious account of David going into a mixed-sex loo for a poo and letting off a loud fart. The lady in the cubicle next to him calls out “Is that you Maureen”.

From David’s point of view, (and pretty much every man and “cool girl” on the planet) he thinks that Maureen must be such a regular farter that her friend thinks the fart noise just has to be her.

I suspect most women would read this situation differently- Maureen’s friend has realised she was half naked inches away from a strange man and is calling out anxiously to her friend to make sure she isn’t alone.

I’m wondering what this board’s thoughts would be. Am I just looking to hard into an anecdote or is men’s complete obliviousness a big issue when it comes to mixed sex facilities.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

For obvious reasons, crimes like voyeruismm are much more likely to take place in a mixed sex space where people undress.

Women could live their lives more freely if men didn’t commit the 98% of sexual and violent crimes that occur in the country. Or if women didn’t shout other women down and dismiss them wanting their own spaces where their pants might be down around their ankles, for privacy and dignity reasons, regardless if other women don’t feel the same. Gosh indeed.

Yes he will. So you don’t do away with safeguarding measures. It’s really not difficult. Or shouldn’t be.

Be loud, take up space, assert yourself, don't cater to men or change your behaviour because there's a man nearby. Screw him!
All this talk of needing special spaces because we're oh so terrified, feels like we're taking our own right away, segregating ourselves.

No this is embarrassingly dumb, victim-blaming, anti-feminist ableist bullshit

Women and girls shouldn’t have to act a certain way or advocate for themselves in a certain way for their needs to be taken seriously.

I have autistic young DDs wanting to be able to go to the toilet in public toilets as needed. They can’t advocate for themselves or make a big noise if someone creepy approaches them and they are incredibly socially vulnerable at the best of times. According to written professional opinion. So yes I am fucking terrified.

But yeah sorry to let your idea of the sisterhood down with not keeping my disabled female kids safely locked away at home all day and everything

Do ring your insurers and explain to them that if someone's going to burgle you and steal your car then they're going to do it regardless of precautions, and you're not using locks any more.

I don't think you'll find they agree with you.

The little girls and their parents following the assault on those girls by Katie Dolotowski were specifically enabled by Dolotowski being able to be in a women's single sex space. Karen White's victim, left multiply raped all night and severely injured was specifically enabled by White being able to identify into a single sex locked space. White cracked on with a few more women to entertain himself in a women's prison while awaiting trial, having identified in there too. Isla Bryson. How many case studies would you like?

And it's not solely down to fear and risk of assault. There are multiple and complex reasons why women are not willing to use mixed sex spaces when they are vulnerable, in an enclosed space and partially undressed.

What on earth are you on about? Medication?? Getting rid of crisis centres??

I'm fine with single sex spaces. I'm not fine with acting like we're weak and scared

“Never mind, I guess women should just be seen and not heard.”

This became obvious with your posts dismissing the needs of others.

So if we are assertive enough and and take back our rights (whatever that means) we won't be assaulted? Only weak women are raped and abused then?
Good to know

Then you do acting brave and strong and I'll crack on having accessible spaces, and we'll both leave each other in peace .

I’m not terrified of mixed sex facilities. As long as the cubicles are fully partitioned and regularly cleaned I see them as the solution to the “who goes where” conundrum.

Having needs that require privacy is not ‘weak’ and ‘scared’.

But excellent example of the very opposite of empowering women !! Well done again.

"Be loud, take up space, assert yourself, don't cater to men or change your behaviour because there's a man nearby."

This was you, yes? With the implication that if a woman isn't able to do these things she's somehow weak?

It's verging on blaming women. Think about it.

Tragically I think this is probably what this poster honestly believes. That it doesn't happen to women who were thinking properly at the time.

No one wants to stop women and men who want them having mixed sex spaces in addition to single sex and enjoying them. Do have a lovely time.

And leave those of us who need single sex spaces alone.

I see. We can still have single sex toilets, but only for reasons that some posters find acceptable.

Goodo! Good to see feminism in action!

There are many shades of grey and alternative points of view. Black & White thinking on this issue isn’t helpful

Yes. It is.

It is also shaming any women who want single sex spaces for reasons that have been dismissed by that poster.

What a ridiculous thing to say. It's absolutely not what i believe. Men are going to do it regardless so we should live loudly and not tiptoe around them. Not be ashamed of ourselves. Plenty of women have made great points here about the benefits of single sex spaces and I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have them. The only things I've specifically argued against is saying it's because it's 'terrifying' to share a space with a man and the poster who didn't want a man in a separate room to hear her opening a period product.

Ok never mind all. Continue being ashamed of getting periods.

Yes.

We understand that you wish to shame anyone who has needs different to yours.

I do not want to use a mixed sex toilet and do not spend my money in establishments that do not provide single sex facilities.

I think this is the kind of thing you say when you have had the good fortune to live a life where you have never truly felt threatened by a man.

I can imagine places where being loud and taking up space would be effective and great for you if you only ever have to be in those places. However, I can also imagine places where it would be as much use as a chocolate teapot.

No one can ever know how they will react in a dangerous situation. However loud, however assertive, however gobby they think they are. You just don't know until it actually happens. Believe me.

So if women don't "live loudly" don't shame them.

I'm actually quite pleased for you that you're unaware of what some deviant men get up to in women's toilets.

No one here is "ashamed" of getting periods. We'd rather not inadvertently participate in an revolting sexual fetish.

Twitter has been awash with said men filming themselves wanking in women's toilets and shoving used tampons up their arses that they'd fished out of the sanitary bins.

Again, really pleased for you that you're not aware of how fucking deviant some men are.
Ignorance must be bliss

No - I hard disagree. I hate mixed sex toilets. I don’t know any woman or girl who thinks they’re ok. I hate men being in previously women only spaces. Not just because of potential safety issues (which are hugely significant), but also because a lot of men are fcking gross smelly oafs.