NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #57

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to:
[email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025

It ought to, but he won't be because he's: a) male; and b) has said the magic words 'I'm trans". And therefore different and more favourable rules apply to him.

Note to self and to others - don’t go on the National (the shit ‘newspaper’)’s FB page if you value your blood pressure. Came up on my feed and the comments from the trans supporting loons are wild.

Apparently this judgment shows that the SC ruling was wrong and men can go wherever they like.

Surely Kemp needs to be hauled over the coals for this, for the points already highlighted? Why can’t it be decided that where ‘woman/women’ is mentioned, anywhere, in any context, it means biological women?! If you want to stick a trans in front to depict men with gender dysphasia crack on, but the word woman is ours.

*dysphoria

The added misinformation (and briefing against women's rights) is infuriating, but I keep reminding myself, there's no point talking with activists or the randomly uninformed; the only people to be talking to now are those with the power or need to do something. The law is there, it's clear, (however hard everyone keeps trying to obfusticate it because they're uncomfortable with accepting equality of consideration for women) and even this judgment had to admit, clearly, the time of being able to just put women's rights aside is gone. Over. Kaput.

But surely no doctors are THAT thick?

No trans identifying male genuinely thinks they are an actual woman.

You must not think that if you want to truly understand the scale of what we're up against. These are people who have entirely replaced sex with gender, so yes, most of them truly believe down to their bones that trans women are women. Believe me, you cannot overestimate the impact of the "one right way to think" in the TRA community.

As for Dr U: he's biological, and he's a woman in his eyes, so he's a biological woman. Yes it's simplistic, and yes it only makes sense on the surface, but that's literally something TRAs argue.

Do we know if any media outlets have reached out to Upton for comment on the outcome?

The National, the Greens, Maggie Personperson etc etc are all trumpeting Upton's exoneration across FB, and how this means trans people can go where they like, SC judgment has become invalid etc, and the comments generallysupporting this view. Wrong, but repeated and amplified. Definitely not good for the blood pressure. I hope Sandie and her family keep away from FB for a while.

It's only perjury if you don't believe it to be true. For all we know, DU does actually believe he's a woman.

Yup, it’s infuriating. I’m really having to sit on my hands not to get involved. I had to block
one TRA who I stupidly engaged with.

I want to know what, if any, complaints to or sanctions can be put on Judge Kemp. Surely they are answerable to someone? Using language like ‘assigned female at birth’. It’s factually incorrect.

Is it possible to challenge that belief based on his education and job as a doctor. For example he would have to prescribe the male level dosage of certain drugs to transwomen, and visa-versa. If he prescribed drugs on his belief rather than on objective evidence then he could severely injury or kill someone?

Or even ask him what level of presecription he would take for certain drugs i.e. hormones etc... does he take the male level or the female level.

I think we have to let go of the "he said he's a biological woman" issue. It's not germane to the case, nor relevant to whether men should be using women's toilets or not. As an individual, in the bigger scheme of things DU just isn't important enough to worry about.

Agreed. We really need to focus on the legal aspects of all this. Frustrating as it is, as soon as an individual is centred we get into "oh the poor vulnerable tw" and all the emotive guff that we're currently drowning in.

Men like Upton saying they are biologically female makes me very suspicious. The TIM claim used to be 'I am a woman'. The claim to be biologically female seemed to arise after the 'woman = adult human female' pushback.

Seethlaw, do you think that men like Upton genuinely believe that they are biological females who, for some unknown reason, have biologically male bodies?

The claim to be biologically female seemed to arise after the 'woman = adult human female' pushback.

Yes, exactly. If they can't dismiss the definition since it's law now, then they'll find a way to appropriate it: "I've got a female gender identity, so I'm female. Ergo I'm a woman!"

Seethlaw, do you think that men like Upton genuinely believe that they are biological females who, for some unknown reason, have biologically male bodies?

Well, it really depends on what you call "biological females", doesn't it? They don't mean the same thing as you do by it. A lot of them truly believe they have a female gender identity in a male-sexed body. But to them, gender is what matters, so their male-sexed body is female because they are female inside.

Fortunately, we don't have to write the appeal documents. I'm sure Naomi will do it much better!

I bet Naomi is ready for a long, sunny holiday somewhere that there's a recliner with her name on it.

I think that some of the more prominent TIMs have absolutely persuaded themselves that they are women, who are in the incorrect body.

and that because of this some less wealthy less prominent have been validated by this.

the grand finale for them is that all women accept them as women and they very nearly got there.

I don’t really care that much about what goes on in their heads, or indeed whether this is a psychiatric disorder or not. (Although i suspect it is)

All we need to continue to do, is to focus on our protected rights, spaces etc.

They can think and espouse whatever they like

You would think TRAs would have learned not to celebrate 1st instance wins by now. So many are overturned on appeal.

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

What I read was that the notes on his phone were assessed by a tech and found to have been changed or made a good while after the events he was allegedly recording.
He might have been upset by the incidents, but so was Sandie.

Likewise sick of the madness. The twisted logic and linguistic acrobatics to allow men in women’s spaces. It’d be more comforting to think that the judge was afraid. However, the progressive intelligentsia side with aggressive TRAs and - unfathomably - see them as the vulnerable minority needing protection.

But then, women don’t really matter in the scheme of things.

FFFS.

Well, it really depends on what you call "biological females", doesn't it? They don't mean the same thing as you do by it.

Which, as PP have said, does bring in to question DU's fitness to practise in a medical setting. Though perhaps not his credibility as a witness.

Thanks for, that. I'll respect other posters' preference to move off this topic now.

Correct.