Ofcom will now investigate Talk Tv re transphobia.

[Imnobody4]

Here we go again.

From Good Law Project:

We said we’d sue over Ofcom’s decision to dismiss 22,000 complaints about transphobia on TalkTV – now the regulator has caved.

But we had monitored its output for July 2025, a month in which it carried 11 discussions on trans people. And in every discussion, its hosts and guests consistently spouted transphobic views. TalkTV’s stance mirrors the broader editorial position of its sister newspaper The Times, whose toxic and intellectually dishonest campaign against trans people we believe to be a contributor to the rise in hate crime against them.

x.com/JuliaHB1/status/1996576537894703427?t=VgmnlP9LETiwrihlgEkCqA&s=09

Among my misdeeds, apparently, is that I said this on air: "By definition, if you’ve had to get a piece of paper to say that you are a woman, you must accept then that you are man."

I'm happy to be found guilty of defending women's rights and safety, knowing the actual law, understanding basic biology and knowing what a woman is. 🤷🏻‍♀️

The only data point that is methodologically reliable here is the experience of detransitioners. Which I agree needs to be heard and taken seriously,

I don't know how my son is healthwise. He has talked about oestrogen; I don't know whether he is taking it. Because I felt it was my duty to gently question that path, and because we (DW and I, quite separately) have called him out on trying to coerce us into affirming his 'womanhood', he has barely talked to us for over a year. This is not normal behaviour in our family, both nuclear and wider – we have been tolerant of very different religious, social and political views. I am pleased that he is still willing to speak to some of our wider family; interestingly the divide between those he is willing to communicate with, and those he is not, is not the ideological divide between "gender critical" and "trans ally", or even trans and not trans.

I filled mine up with the wibbly wobbly sex reference.

when you reject the testimony of an actual trans person

I have not rejected his testimony of his experience of being trans. Quite the opposite.

I have rejected his gender critical beliefs , and his interpretation of certain aspects of scientific evidence, which are an entirely separate thing.

Im not here to defend my person or justify my credibility. I am simply sharing accurate information about what it is to be trans. Which is very much exactly how @Seethlaw described his experience. - "Something wrong with the brain/ psyche" that causes him to persistently see himself as male despite being born female. I wouldn't use the word wrong, but otherwise this exactly aligns with what I have been trying to share.

What do you think the divide is? Maybe those that are less close and therefore it feels less personal?

Thanks for sharing your personal experience, I really hope you are able to work it all out.

I wonder: do you accept the testimony of the parents of potentially trans children as to what their children are like?

And yes, the experience of detransitioners needs to be heard and taken seriously - but it isn't treated so in the TRA community. As I said in a previous post, I was dismissed as a probably detransitioner by other trans people who wanted to invalidate my point of view. It is my understanding that this is reflective of the general behaviour of the TRA community as a whole. That doesn't speak of a community willing to accept and face the facts.

@puppymaddness how are you getting on with those definitions? You keep telling us we’re wrong but you don’t have any alternatives so I’m just going to determine you have nothing credible to offer. Shane. I was rooting for you.

Obviously this poster is the absolute oracle on trans experience. Despite not being trans. And even though many of us know trans people, we have no grasp whatsoever of the trans experience. Neither does the actual trans person.
You would think they'd be prepared to share their thoughts backed up by robust evidence in order to educate about something that means so much to them.
It's a head scratcher.

Now stop asking for facts and evidence to back up their claims. They just KNOW.

we have no grasp whatsoever of the trans experience and neither does the trans person

why do you keep making this misrepresentation?

Most posters on this thread have no grasp whatsoever of trans experience, as they have clearly demonstrated in the things they have said.

The trans person of course does. He described his experience. - "Something wrong with the brain/ psyche" that causes him to persistently see himself as male despite being born female.

This is what it is to be trans.
nothing to do with projected stereotypes, ideological beliefs, repressed homosexuality, sexual perversion. Just a difference related to the brain / psyche that causes a person to consistently and persistently perceive themselves as a sex other than what was observed at birth.

We used to have a regular here who claimed to have done the definitive research on trans, but couldn't share it because that would be outing. We just had to trust that this research - maybe it went to a different school - underpinned the poster's oracular statements.

The only constant was that we, with our simple muggle minds, couldn't possibly understand the mystery of transness. We just had to trust the oracle.

I mean even Mystic Meg used to say stuff like "your moon is in Sagittarius and therefore", so we could follow her reasoning.

I know it is inconvenient that we're a bolshy lot on FWR and need a bit more than "trust me, I'm the oracle", especially when the oracle dismisses any and all evidence or even lived experience that contradicts the oracle. But someone trying to persuade us would realise that and adapt to the audience.

Whoever said it, I make them right!

Try telling all that to Debbie Hayton and Grayson Perry. Both very openly AGP. And considered Trans. Not by us btw, by Stonewall.

Is getting boners when they puy on a skirt an acceptable part of their trans experience for you? Cos that's what their transness is based on.

Thank you again. I agree that the divide is largely a matter of former closeness.

I do have some sympathy for him not having the affirmation he desires from those closest to him; however, I have good reasons to suspect that the division is coming less from him and more from the trans allies he is close to. I believe he could talk if he was helped to do so, perhaps through family counselling, but when we all thought we had that set up, it collapsed in a heap before we had had any joint sessions. Part of the problem is that he is not able to express what is going on from his perspective. Believe me, we tried to ask and understand what he meant by "trans", but he said very little in response. This was before I had worked out my own understanding and feelings, so it was not a matter of me being argumentative.

Somewhere on another thread someone mentioned that our identities (whatever we mean by the word) are bound up in relationships. Gender identity thinking seems to forget this, and claims that we are "whoever we say we are". But we are who other people say we are, too, whether in words or how they relate to us. The lonely girl in a children's home has an identity formed not just by her view of herself but by the lack of deep loving stable relationships with parents, and the usually very inadequate substitutes who rarely support beyond the age when the girl leaves for the big wide world. The man or woman struggling to hold down a job in an abusive workplace has an identity which is affected by the impossibility of satisfying the over-demanding management structure above. If we are surrounded by people who say "of course you're a woman if you think you are, and everyone has to treat you as one or they are transphobic" that affects our identity; we may have to work hard to remember who has advocated for us throughout our childhood struggles.

Trans people may have certain kinks; just as there are cis people who do. I'm not here to account for the sexual practices/ preferences of every individual trans person. But AGP is not what makes a person trans. It is an entirely separate condition. What makes a person trans is having the experience that @Seethlaw described.

Just a difference related to the brain / psyche that causes a person to consistently and persistently perceive themselves as a sex other than what was observed at birth.

But we now know that there's a whole cohort of trans boys who in fact never experience that specific feeling. What they feel is discomfort with being female, because of the social, physical and psychological difficulties attached to it. Many of them end up detransitioning.

There are also plenty of people who have testified to the fact that they never felt that feeling I described, but instead were uncomfortable with their same-sex attraction, and resolved to solve it by becoming trans heterosexual people. That's not a myth or a stereotype.

You can't say that all trans people feel the same as I do, because many have testified that they don't.

Whether or not you would wish to exclude these people from identifying as trans, there is no way to do that.

That's such a shame that the family counselling fell through. It sounds like maybe that could have really helped.

Part of the problem is that he is not able to express what is going on from his perspective. Believe me, we tried to ask and understand what he meant by "trans", but he said very little in response.

I think that is a really hard ask of a young person. to be able to theorise about their experience in that way (eg what being "trans" means) it's such a complicated subject conceptually. He may simply lack the concepts/ words to be able to explain it abstractly like that. I think an easier ask might be to ask him to describe how he is feeling?

I agree that identities are formed relationally. However, remember what we heard from that pp upthread - how nothing that anyone has ever said / done has been able to change his self perception.

Oymygod.
Debbie Hayton identifies as trans. And what underpins the trans identity is the fact that he is AGP. He acknowledges this openly.

But of course you know best.

I'd drop him a line to let him know you don't agree with his trans status.

These are misunderstandings on your part.

That "woman" has never been understood as simply referring to basic biological facts, but the additional social elements were laid on top of those who have female bodies. The body was always the a fundamental element. To deny this is to deny a fundamental fact of women's history.

That "sex" is not as simple as gender critical feminism pretends arguments at times for brevity reduce it to, but neither is it the inchoate undefinable quality that Genderism claims. The existence of small numbers of humans with DSDs that cause variety within the expression of sexual characteristics does not support the Genderist assertion that fully male sex characteristics can somehow nevertheless be those of a female person if the man in question perceives himself to be.

Gender critical feminism is also incoherent in how it presents the relationship between "sex" and "gender".

Nope, that's just plain wrong. Your (willfull) failure to understand what is a very simple difference between the reality of the body and the self image (if you refer to gender "identity"), or the social construct (if you refer to gender in the Feminist sense) is not a failing on the part of Gender Critical Feminism, but simply your own ideological blinkers.

All the above of course uses the commonly accepted meanings of man, woman, male and female. If you choose to redefine those words you can, of course, claim what I have said "is not true" or "makes no sense", but this is just changing the meaning of words to falsely adjust what I said into something I did not say. The truth my words represent remains.

I didn't say I wanted "to exclude them from being trans".

I said that what makes a person trans is a difference related to the brain which causes a person to persistently , consistently, pervasively perceive themselves as other than their birth sex. This is totally separate to any sexual kinks/ preferences a person may also have whether they are trans or not.

I don't think you are in a position to counsel us based on the small amount of information, necessarily from my viewpoint, you have been given! Probably best not to try.

The trans person of course does. He described his experience. - "Something wrong with the brain/ psyche" that causes him to persistently see himself as male despite being born female.

The definition used by Stonewall is much wider. Why should people be taking your word rather than theirs?

I don't believe it is much wider:

Fair enough!!

But those famous AGP people openly admit they do not have that feeling I described. To them, "being trans" is about kinking on presenting as the opposite sex. That's how they self-describe their own transidentity. If you argue that they need to have that special feeling, then yes, you are effectively excluding them from being trans.