I wonder what the WI are going to announce on Woman's Hour in the next few minutes?

[nauticant]

Apparently it will be a matter of the greatest seriousness and sorrow.

Trans men exist yes. Nobody is fighting for their right to join women's organisations except transphobes who want to use them to uphold their fundamentalist logics that justify banning all women's organisations that include trans women,

Listen mate. If a woman's organisation includes trans identifying males then it is no longer a woman's organisation but a mixed sex organisation. Hopefully this explanation by the barrister & equality law expert Naomi Cullingham will show you why.

https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2024/11/06/sex-peanuts-and-statutory-interpretation/

Don’t be so dramatic. If an organisation is specifically for women, then it’s for women. Just like if an organisation is set up for Jewish children, then adult Christians are not included. Or support groups for victims of the Post Office scandal not including Americans who’ve never stepped foot in the UK. Excluding certain demographs from specific groups happens the world over.

...and reasonable people don't expect to be part of it or force their way into it.

They think "that's not for me". And move on.

Hey Pup, what’s with the ‘state-imposed’ bollocks? Why not start a new post in AIBU and include a vote?
I’ll help you.
Pup believes transwomen are women.
Vote AIBU if you disagree
Vote AINBU if agree

Then come back once you see the figures. It’s not ‘state imposed’. It’s biology, truth, law, humanity.

A group can be mixed sex and include transwomen. What it cannot do (and never could) was call itself a women's group and then admit transwomen - because then it is including women and SOME men, so is being discriminatory towards men who are not trans. That's the law. Nothing to do with not liking transpeople or discriminating against transpeople - transmen would possibly be welcome to join a women's group (with the caveat mentioned by the SC that they may not enter women only spaces if their appearance - i.e. being bearded etc - would cause alarm).

yes and they also welcomed trans women, until logics such as yours insisted that there must be a total, absolute, state-imposed prohibition on any women's group/ organisation that welcomes/ includes trans women.

The law is very even-handed so trans identifying women are excluded from male only single sex spaces/clubs/services etc just as trans identifying men are excluded from female only single sex spaces/clubs/services etc.

Why wait until April next year? Maybe they're hoping Labour changes the law to empower transvestites.

Or maybe, more mundanely, they don't want the administrative burden of giving partial refunds of the annual subs of the trans identified males who have already been permitted to join.

If they are transinclusive of transwomen then they are not women's organisations. If they include 'transmen' i.e. confused women, they remain women's organisations. It is not transpeople who are excluded from women's organisations, it is trans women i.e. confused men who say they are women.

I haven't seen such stubborn silliness from anyone (and puppy is a very, ahem, ''furry' type username) since Howie last plopped one of his screeds of piffle on a thread.

Are transmen who get pregnant and give birth (something only females can do) not actually transmen?

What you specifically wish to ban is the right of women to language, privacy, dignity, rights and spaces away from men.

I had similar furry-vibes when I read their username. Then decided to I need to take a break and bleach my brain. I prefer the time in my life when I was more innocent to certain parts of life.

@puppymaddness

please can you explain the grounds for having legal segregation for women and transwomen ?

like - men only - because on average across society men find it hard to discuss their mental health around women as they have been conditioned to see that as weakness

women only - because women on average across society need to learn how to live in a strongly sexist society - how to speak up for themselves and out themselves forward when they have been conditioned to think of themselves as a team player not a leader

what common problems are faced by women and transwomen on average across that particular grouping?

Girlguiding too.

Oh you'll just get back some utter drivel like 'no, transmen who give birth are actually fathers with wombs'.

All of this is very easy if you just change the meanings of words.

If nothing else, this movement has shown us just how completely risible and ridiculous people are prepared to make themselves look in their pursuit of female submission to male demands.

This was just covered on the Radio 4 PM programme, Evan Davis in the chair.

Evan Davis sounded like he was at a funeral.

Another gay man who obviously has zero empathy for women.

I’ve just sent a message to my area WI requesting details of any WI groups local to me. In the message box I’ve explained that as a direct result of today’s announcement that the WI will now revert to being single sex and no longer accept male members I wish to join.
I wonder how they will respond?

Always good to hear how ED is handling things. Haven't been able to listen to him since he was consistently so rude about women while being paid £300k+ a year

what led you to that conclusion?

Because I believe it's anti democratic (and a violation of principles of freedom of association and the independence of civil society ) for the Stare to enforce a total prohibition on any women's group ever being able to also welcome / include trans women regardless of that group's own purported mission/ values?

There's that extremist logic rearing its ugly and dangerous head again..

You know @puppymaddnessi am really
trying to understand

i can’t accept that law is written for some peoples feelings because feelings are so varied and what makes one person happy makes another sad, what makes one person feel safe makes another feel scared

give the the logic reason for thinking transowmen are women

"Logics such as yours" is such a brilliant, telling phrase.

Oh, logic is 'extremist' now This has got to be a GC poster on the wind-up!