I wonder what the WI are going to announce on Woman's Hour in the next few minutes?

[nauticant]

Apparently it will be a matter of the greatest seriousness and sorrow.

Only if you are genuinely perceived to be female.

And, while discrimination by perception exists, it's not in any way the equivalent of being female.

They spelled "Mannequin" wrong, also.
Just saying, Melissa.

I didn’t say I could add to it, but it is a shared experience

Maybe you're just bad at your job?

And that's all you'd be bringing to the table?
🤣

But then surely you’d invite your non trans women friend to a trans group because you believe women and transwomen share some experiences so she’d fit in right? If not, why not?

Nope. I’m good at what I do and it only started years into my transition

so they didn’t minimise you when you were a male but as soon as you decided you “were a woman” they treated you differently because they suddenly believed you were a woman. Uh huh. Sure Jan.

Are you serious? You really don’t think women or trans women experience issues like that in the workplace?

Oh women do certainly. But that’s all you’ve got about the joint experiences of women and males with a trans identity. Bless your little heart. You have no clue about what women experience.

Then report those men to your bosses for being sexist twats.

Can men be sexist to other men? I’d say report them for bullying maybe.

I suspect they'll stick to this guff until the EU Commission, UN, & the WHO do a reverse ferret. The WHO & UN in particular were sold the notion that HIV infections were coming down nicely except among cross-dressing prostituted men so if they could only "destigmatise" cross-dressing in the same way that being gay has been largely destigmatised in the West (itself a sadly doubtful assertion) then HIV rates could be brought down to tiny numbers.

As a proposition it's got more holes than Belgian lace. For a start, women & girls constitute over half of the world's HIV infections every year & in some parts of sub-Saharan Africa young women are 8x more likely to become infected than are young men. In the UK, where neglecting women's health is merely comme il faut, infection rates are now climbing again in the female population (although the ineptitude of the NHS in proviiding sex-disaggregated data does force one to wonder exactly how many of these infections recorded as in females are in female bodies).

Edited for missing acronym.

Yes. If they percieve him to be a woman and treat him worse because of it then they are being sexist.

I notice it's the men who are the problem where Crafty works. It's always the men who are the problem!

Or they could just not like him….

Ok. Please can you explain to me why a space that is open to anybody of either sex who wants to use it can possibly be a single sex space? In what sense is it single sex?

Calling me mate, real original 🤣

I’ve spent a lot of time here trying to understand the GC position and I know a lot of women would be afraid to speak up against a trans woman because she’d be afraid of a violent reaction or social consequences. I was saying I’d hope no one be afraid of me doing that.

But you’d never know and you took away their right to consent to a mixed sex space. So you know these women might be worried you’d kick off if they said no, so you thought the best thing to do was turn up and not even give them the choice? Not very womanly of you was it? I thought women were supposed to be kind, put others feelings first and minimise any upset they may cause. Men on the other hand…..

I see. As I understand it this is the exact expereince of all trans people. They don't feel that they fit into the parameters of their own sex, and they are never truly accepted by the other sex either.

And to your point I have obsesrved that a lot of the negative experiences that women face revolve around the central point of they simply do not have the same physcial strength as men and they have existed in a civilisation that has had a 99% rate of male decision makers. So I have no doubt that you have had some similar experiences to what you assume women are experiencing, but I strongly doubt it is for the same reasons.

You’re right. I had no way of knowing for sure, but my experiences up to that point gave me no reason to believe to believe my presence would cause alarm. It’s not as if I came out one day and decide to join the next. I’d been on HRT for 4 years and had SRS at this point and experienced quite significant changes

..............and I know a lot of women would be afraid to speak up against a transwoman because she’d be afraid of a violent reaction or social consequences
What, such as the transwoman's suicide?

I was saying I’d hope no one be afraid of me doing that
Oh good. I'm sure nobody would be because we've heard this threatened so many times, and we know it is an empty threat, made to try and make us feel guilty.

I’d been on HRT for 4 years and had SRS at this point and experienced quite significant changes

BUT YOU STILL WEREN'T A WOMAN.
And you'd still have no idea what it feels like to be an actual woman.

So now you know that you maybe causing distress that you might not see to women in the group are you going to stop going until the group has been consulted and given consent?

So why not ask first? You took away their right to consent and you’ve said you know people would worry you’d kick off if they said no. Can you see how bad that makes you look? You didn’t give a damn if they minded as long as you got what you wanted. I’m not saying that’s classic male entitlement, but if it walks like a duck….