I wonder what the WI are going to announce on Woman's Hour in the next few minutes?

[nauticant]

Apparently it will be a matter of the greatest seriousness and sorrow.

No, because we believe its discriminatory to ban other men.

You still have't explained what characteristics you think are shared by women and men who identify as women, but not other men.

The thing is if you include women and transwomen you can be properly inclusive and include all men

wht exclude a subset of men ? What is the logic? That rationale?

so the WI can be female only or fully inclusive but why are you allowing it to include only a subset of men?

There's that extremist logic rearing its ugly and dangerous head again..

There's that extremist logic rearing its ugly and dangerous head again... Why won't those extremists stop banging on about the Equality Act & Protected Characteristics?

logic is extremism / reminds me when I was a child and ostracised for being logical because I had brains and they know it, they were scared and ashamed so resorted to simple bullying and tantrums

Maybe because trans women aren’t the same as men?

"Living as a woman"
How despise that phrase.
It excludes women!

Perhaps you could explain the difference?

I don't have any problem with you talking about the equalities act and protected characteristics.

I have a problem with you enforcing the absolute and total prohibition of the existence in society of any women's groups that chose to welcome/ include trans women.

Explain how, please. In material terms.

To be honest, I think you could probably have a group for people who 'live as women', as long as it was clear about what that meant and it included and excluded women and men equally.

As long as such a group had less than 25 members they can do what they like.

Why do you keep wanging on about this being undemocratic? Do you know what democratic means? Hint: it doesn’t mean ‘something I disagree with’.

Gosh how liberal minded of you! As long as we are not 26 or more people voluntarily comprising women and trans women and enjoying each others company then! 😂

There's no prohibition on women's groups being able to also welcome / include trans women: women's groups can choose to become mix-sexed if they wish. There's just no excuse for them to welcome only trans women and not other men as well. To do so, they would need to have a reason to exclude those men but not trans women, and there just doesn't legally exist such a reason (ie. there's no distinguishing element between trans women and other men which could justify a legal discrimination against other men.) So it's all men or no men at all.

In other words: you're the one being discriminatory here, by excluding other men.

It’s not posters on mn determining the law @puppymaddness

You keep saying that, but you still haven't explained what women as a sex and men who believe they have a female identity are supposed to have in common.

Perhaps if you could pin it down, there would be a way to have a group for people who share these traits/preferences/personality quirks. As long as it was for anyone of either sex it would be completely lawful.

This reminds me of the thread from last year, I will try to find

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5281525-transman-tries-to-join-female-and-non-binary-space?page=11

There's no prohibition on women's groups being able to also welcome / include trans women: women's groups can choose to become mix-sexed if they wish.

Yes. I understand perfectly.

you are fine with mixed sex groups for everyone . That's allowed by you.

What you specifically wish to prohibit , in law , is any group for women that welcomes, includes trans women.

In other words: you're the one being discriminatory here, by excluding other men.

puppymaddness seems steeped in that weird type of transphobia that pretends biological sex doesn't exist (without which there would be no trans people, in their fantasy world).

Like or not, the Equality Act 2010 exists.

Cope and seethe

Basic logic seems a step too far.
Logic isn't particular to any one person- logic is logic - same to all
If people believe trans identifying men are women then there must be something amiss with their logic.. cos it's not ..logic
Is it???

I'm truly sick of this- cannot comprehend why women constantly argue that trans identifying men are women. Why do they do this? Arguing against women's rights- the very sex class to which they belong. It doesn't make sense.

Listening to some of the comments on JV today, it seems that women are also bringing up their children to believe the same. Could be regarded as indoctrination, no?

PS; Puppy's posting style seems familiar but I can't think why?

People are very patiently trying to explain the law to you as you seem to be in a bit of a muddle.
You're on a site of mainly women and no matter how sad/angry this tiny but powerful subset of men are, women are in favour of no men in women's spaces. No mixed showering, undressing etc. No men in women's sport. And we're taking our language back helped by the clarity of the SC. The WI & GG have an honourable history of supporting women and they're simply returning to being women centred.

Sad for those who spent so much time and effort trashing all things for women but great for women and girls.

Something upset you, dear?