Sara Morrison v BFF - thread 5

[SexRealistic]

https://genderblog.net/sara-morrison-v-belfast-film-festival/

it would be like me appearing on a platform with dissident republicans

CE that's what you want the tribunal to draw as a comparison - SM's actions with dissident republicans

LM no

Well, which is it?? This witness is going to to pretzel himself.

CE and you say something similar later on about her criticsm of the women's sector -
LM I said she was entitled to her views
CE you don't mention transgender people, trans rights or gender identity or sex realist beliefs of the LGBT community at all
LM no
CE so you're giving the impression the problem that you have is ONLY about what SM said about women's sector
LM "yes and being on the platform in the first place"

😏

"raises MD's appearance in an election video for Sinn Fein with permission the BFF's board]
CE the CEO of BFF could reasonably be expected alienate unionists
LM I don't think so'"

And there were no complaints from the women's sector...

From NW

[CE takes LM to 4 May board meeting minutes]
CE would you agree the issue mentioned here is about the LGBTQ community and not women's groups
LM as a board member [missed this sorry]
CE asks the q again - the note as we read it now is about the LGBT community
SD I have difficulty with this q - it's not an accurate interpretation of that note
J ?
CE the only crit in this note of women's centres is by SM
LM Belfast is a small city, the women's sector is small the LGBT is small - it's very close. I think some of the comments i had read of SM was more about women's centres in general but it's broader than that.

Exactly!

No platform except Laurence McKeown's platform.
How very liberal of him.

I do not know LM except to nod at, but on the question of Difficult Women...

Many years ago I got an insight into how this works in Laurence's political circles, at a talk organised by the Mary Ann McCracken Society.

The speaker, whose name I can't quite remember (I think it was Chrissie McAuley, but may have been some other prominent Sinn Fein woman) was giving a spirited talk and building to a crescendo on the theme of how Republican women were their own political subject and would no longer be content to make the tea.

At this point Gerry Adams entered the room. By the time he sat down, a woman was at his shoulder with a cup of tea.

It doesn't matter how revolutionary Irish men are in their own minds, Mrs Doyle Syndrome is never far away.

People with contentious views = people who advocate for armed struggle? ☹️

From NW

[NC takes him to an MD WhatsApp (WA) exchange on 5 July 2023 LM writes "What is Sara's response to all of this?
It IS quite stark that her official position is 'Equality
and Inclusion Officer' and yet she appears on a
platform With Jolene Bunting whose outrageous
views across and against a very broad spectrum are
very well known, and Posie Parker's campaign
against trans is equally well known. Does the festival
have to take more action than simply release a
statement?"]
CE do you agree you are highlighting there the problem is her appearance at this rally
LM given her role and the people who were there, this causes issues for the festival
CE and below it you say "And were others "letting women speak" speaking in
support of trans?" - so your focus was on trans in this
LM it all became "intermingled"
J wants clarity on timeline of WA messages

You ain't a Prof for nothin!

I'm getting the impression that LM is rather slippery...

From NW

CE I think this is a WA chat between you and MD
LM agrees
CE so the issue raised at 21:54 is one concerning what SM may or may not have said about trans people rather than womens
LM my intention is to get advice on what they are saying as a citizen or as an employee
J what's your q
CE the focus here is on what SM was thought to have said about trans rather than women's groups
[LM points to MD's comment - "She maintains she is not trans phobic. Her comments at the rally were about freedom of speech and "letting women speak" and his response..

From NW

"And were others "letting women speak" speaking in
support of trans?" - says they were getting a lot of attention in the media and emails about it and he wanted clarity on what happened]
CE takes her to another LM message "Yes Lisa, as Michele said, treading a thin line. I think the
suggestion of removing her from any engagement with
trans or aueer arouos seems to be the solution."

It doesn't matter how revolutionary Irish men are in their own minds, Mrs Doyle Syndrome is never far away.

👌👌👌

I was thinking again about the 'hope this helps' e-mail
Was this e-mail 'excluded' from the internal investigation?
It arrived after the investigation had started but on the face of it would be relevant

Were they incapable of seeing Sara's concerns about the rights of women as anything other than anti trans rhetoric?

BFF can just fuck off.

From NW

[him, sorry]
CE if the problem was women's groups, removing her from engagement with trans or queer groups would not be the solution, would it
[LM speaks quickly and I'm not picking him up v well]
[replies saying its about the broader piece, her job etc]
CE takes LM to MC's text "As a board member 1. think Sara Should be. removed
from any of our trans and queer projects at once."
CE this is about trans, not women's groups again
LM SM's decision to speak at LWS was causing problems. we agree she said nothing transphobic. it was best to withdraw her until we knew what the situation was.

From NW

CE you reply to MC "I totally agree. As you say Mark, it doesn't affect her
employment rights but it removes her, and the
festival, from the issue. "
CE the issue is trans
LM it's the wider context
CE your WS says the problem with SM was about her crit of women's groups

LM no it wasn't misleading at all
CE omitting to mention all of these discussions about trans issues that are an issue of concern
LM no there's nothing misleading in my WS at all it's a very clear exposition
CE if you had connected her criticisms with of trans you know...

Have been bigly busy and just caught up. As I do keep records and am a great fan of Yes Minister I'm going to appoint myself Cabinet Secretary. Too late to be a Professor and my rare certificates would be too outing to anyone who knew me IRL.

If there's a gist to this, it's that the arts sector is a subsidiary of Pride and you basically render yourself unemployable if Pride take against you.

I'm not sure that these networked women's groups are particularly big patrons of BFF, but taking Alliance for Choice as an example... if I can't say anything rude about SWP member Goretti Horgan, then I've got no political speech worth mentioning.

From NW

... you'd be encroaching on her protected belief
LM I've heard a lot of theories in this tribunal. This was a staffing issues
CE if you had...
LM I'm not going down this road
CE I can ask the q and you can refuse to answer it - if you had linked your concerns with SM and its effects on the trans community that would have been a reaction to SM's protected sex realist beliefs
LM we weren't dealing with hypotheticals, we were dealing with the situation as it had arisen
CE no further q's
SD no re-examination
J so that concludes all the evidence?
SD it does indeed
[written submissions in by 9am Friday, oral submissions on each others statements and overarching comments and answers to panel q's at 11.30am Friday]

Well that was quick!

Might get stuff done today.

LM I'm not going down this road

Hmmmmm.

Thank you @ickky

Well done Charlotte Elves.