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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
53
DustyWindowsills · 19/11/2025 13:33

DarkNovemberBringsTheFog · 19/11/2025 13:10

Nah, you’re gaslighting me.

I used to have this quoted on my (Maths) classroom, it must be right.

Edit: If there were the eight creatures of the Indus, who were they?
Also,

Edited

Sounds like a P, and looks like it too (though I'm not a proper lip reader).

SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 13:34

ProfMummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 19/11/2025 11:35

It's a concerning number !😂🥃

I want this on a t-shirt

OP posts:
ickky · 19/11/2025 13:34

From NW
Welcome to Day 8 Session 3 of Morrison v Belfast Film Festival (BFF) - this should be the last witness evidence session of the tribunal. Laurence McKeown has just arrived to give evidence beginning at 1.30pm

Sara Morrison v BFF - thread 5
SexRealistic · 19/11/2025 13:35

MarieDeGournay · 19/11/2025 11:36

It's numerical realism. It shouldn't be allowed as it is phobic towards all those who believe that 2+2=5.

❤️

OP posts:
ickky · 19/11/2025 13:35

From NW
The previous witness, Moyra Lock, has left the building.

Sara Morrison v BFF - thread 5
ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 13:36

ProfessorBettyBooper · 19/11/2025 13:32

I bought some dark chocolate Tunnocks teacakes yesterday (how did I not know about these???!!!).

I shall now eat one in solidarity.

You'll be pleased to know your dark Tunnock's are perfectly safe from a roaming beetle looking for Tunnock's to steal.

Blghhhh.

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:36

From NW
In an internal msg to BFF colleagues he said of Sara Morrison (who is bringing a claim against the BFF) : "People would be totally justified in refusing to work with her but we shouldn't put them in that position. I looked at her comments on YouTube. - appalling."

ProfessorOfAllTheThings · 19/11/2025 13:37

JeRevien · 19/11/2025 13:11

Is anyone getting a sense of how its going? It doesn't feel like the other side are making such massive tits of themselves as they have on other tribunals I have followed.

They're not coming out of it well at all!

Just the workplace fetish displays would be enough for most people to not want to go to work with these people.

Not being able to remember meetings or share their documentation on anything if pivotal importance, but being able to remember things that definitely definitely mean SM is the baddy, even though there's no proof. Being able to send messages to each other but not able to give SM her password. Starting an investigation due to complaints that came in after the investigation started, and giving someone sick pay before they've gone off sick.....

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:37

From NW

This is the transcript of what SM said at the Let Women Speak event on 16 April 2023 in Belfast:

"Thank you everyone, every single woman, every single man that has turned up today. I know so
many people who have not been able to turn up today because they are frightened.
Today, however, the women of Belfast have gathered here and they are saying no. We do not
consent.
I am going to tell you a quote: every great cause begins as a movement, begins as a business and
eventually degenerates into a racket. Do you need me to repeat it? Every great cause begins as a
movement, becomes a business and eventually degenerates into a racket.
So apparently there is no place for hate. Let me tell you a story. The same tactics that are being used
by the anti-abortion campaign across Ireland are being used now by Alliance For Choice. Then it was
a deliberate campaign of harassment and intimidation against women. This resulted in women being
shamed and silenced and this is currently being repeated by those in [inaudible] and those over right
over there.
Alliance For Choice wanted women to speak up about their private experiences. These are same
women they wish to silence.
Do you think this is fair?
This organisation has had tens and hundreds of thousands of pounds generated through funding,
donations, charitable donations, taxes who knows? How does this make you feel? Do they serve you
as a taxpayer?
Again, every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and eventually degenerates into
a racket. Do these so-called women's organisations speak for you? Do these self-styled messiahs
represent us? These organisations are paid thousands of pounds through the public purse to sing
songs to silence women speaking. Is that where you want your money going? These organisations,
these women's organisations Wk DA, Alliance For Choice, Women's Policy Group Northern Ireland,
The Women's Sector Lobbyist, Rape Crisis Nl.
I started this new iteration of Rape Crisis Nl, this is not the rape crisis I wanted. We need to keep men
out of women's spaces.
They have morphed into a deliberate campaign of bullying and intimidation into silence through
harassment and bullying the very women they should be protecting and [inaudible].
These organisations do not represent me.
Your vote counts on the 18th of May. I see we have some elective representatives up on the bridge.
You might want to take note of them and not vote for them.
They are here to silence women.
Ask your local representative what they are doing to support women. Not through these
organisations, ask them how the women and children of Belfast and across Northern Ireland are safe
on the streets and in their homes and how their safety and dignity is being protected.
We pay their taxes.These so-called women's organisations are getting so much money. How much money will it take to
silence women? How much money will you approve?
They say they represent women but women with different and equally legitimate views. Women who
do not believe the sacred tenants that sex work is work and surrogacy does not exploit women.
These are the women who they silence. Those women they turn their backs on.
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and eventually degenerates into a
racket."

Justabaker · 19/11/2025 13:37

@VisitingInkMonitor
It's a good question - what triggers the suspicion?

  1. The timing and the source: it appeared after BFF had clearly solicited complaints and the particular org 'Out -whatever' had sent 2 complaints already, the filmmaker was associated with them.
  2. The response from BFF: if complaint felt credible, gross misconduct, suspension pending resolution. The opposite of what they did. I can imagine the eye rolling when it appeared, as it wasn't necessary or helpful to the process they had rolling.
  3. It wasn't contemporaneous. Immediately less credible.
  4. The tone is histrionic. If it was a story told by one of my children when young I wouldn't have believed it.
  5. The assertion of two witnesses. When would 3 TRAs ever have let one of them be berated and abused by a TERF.
  6. No one in the org was prepared to say that Sara had a similar pattern of behaviour. See above, OTT, etc.
  7. Finally it was a gratuitous statement.

At least that's my analysis.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/11/2025 13:41

Plus, if I recall correctly, a previous witness said that SM had never said anything transphobic, it was all guilt by association. From never having said anything transphobic , to randomly calling a trans person a cunt in the middle of a conversation at a film festival seems a bit of a leap.

<Edit for many spelling errors>

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 13:41

CE up again to cross examine

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:42

From NW

okay here we go - court is sitting
SM Sara Morrison - claimant - C
LM Dr Laurence McKeown BFF
SD Sean Doherty - BFF barrister
NC Naomi Cunningham - SM barrister
J judge

LM has been sworn in and is now confirm his witness statement (WS) is "true and accurate account of his evidence"

[CE Charlotte Elves is xe-ing LM for SM, she is NC's junior]
CE takes him to his WS par 5: "The Claimant has raised the issue of Michele Devlin publicly endorsing Sinn Fein’s
Deirdre Hargey in an election as somehow equivalent to her speaking at a public rally
in Belfast. I see no similarity whatsoever. Apart from being the founder of the
Respondent organisation and being a Board Member ever since, I am publicly known
for my life as a former IRA volunteer, a political prisoner who took part in the 1981
hunger strike, and a supporter of Sinn Fein and the Republican Movement. I have
written about my life in various books and publications and made a film about my prison
experiences. It is all very public. However, none of that in any way ever conflicted with
my role as a member of the board of management of the Respondent, as I was always
very clear about the separation between board membership and my life and work as a
private citizen. There never was any challenge to that from any member of the public.
In the same way, there was never any challenge from the public to the Respondent
when Michele Devlin endorsed Deirdre Hargey."

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:43

OMG the hypocrisy of LM

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 13:44

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:43

OMG the hypocrisy of LM

Anyone surprised?

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:44

From NW

CE you recognise a possible conflict between your views and those of SM
LM no my work has been about working with people who were once sworn enemies - I speak at IRA commemorations
CE you accept a separation between personal opinions and your role on the board is v important
LM yes

CE takes LM to the transcript of SM's speech at LWS
CE she didn't mention her employer in that speech
LM no
CE doesn't mention her industry
LM no
CE attended rally in her own time
LM yep

weegielass · 19/11/2025 13:47

I'm sure SMs "appalling" comments would have felt just like a bomb going off for BFF...

EdithStourton · 19/11/2025 13:48

Honestly, you pop out for a morning's Christmas shopping and come back to find one thread filled and the next one so well underway that you've no chance of catching up properly...

Thanks everyone for summaries etc.

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:48

From NW

CE so there's nothing to id her to BFF
LM "belfast is a small city, the arts sector is a small sector, so Sara would immediately be identified"

CE so other than being recgnisable there's nothing she did
LM "I don't agree. she appeared at a public rally with two people who have very contentious views and
it would be like me appearing on a platform with dissident republicans who still advocate for armed struggle" - if that happened I would not be on the board of the BFF
CE that's what you want the tribunal to draw as a comparison - SM's actions with dissident republicans
LM no it's about what you can and can't do as an employee as an includsion and diversity officer and "criticsing women's groups and appearing with poeple whose opinions here have caused a lot of difficulties"

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:49

Ahh Difficult Women no doubt.

TheRevDocProfKittyWilkinsonTSB · 19/11/2025 13:51

ProfessorBoiledbeetle · 19/11/2025 13:44

Anyone surprised?

Not me. I'm thanking God I didn't get further involved with the fecker many years ago.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 19/11/2025 13:52

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:36

From NW
Laurence McKeown is an interesting character. He is co-founder of the BFF and a former IRA gunman and hunger striker.https://t.co/R1ef9tFOU9

An interesting read- thank you for posting.

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:53

TheRevDocProfKittyWilkinsonTSB · 19/11/2025 13:51

Not me. I'm thanking God I didn't get further involved with the fecker many years ago.

involved? 👀 Are we talking Biblically?

ickky · 19/11/2025 13:55

From NW

[raises MD's appearance in an election video for Sinn Fein with permission the BFF's board]
CE the CEO of BFF could reasonably be expected alienate unionists
LM I don't think so
CE she was given permission because MD had the right sort of opinions for the BFF
LM no if SM wanted to endorse the greens or unions she could - people disagree and work together "it's what it's like here"
CE let me give you a hypothetical - say SM wanted to appear at a rally for Amnesty International - it campaigns on human rights abuses and reproductive rights - if SM did that and she criticised human rights situation
"any complaint that the board would get would be investigated"
CE that's just not credible
LM you're calling into question the credibility of the board... if the board gets a complaint it will investigated
CE whether it's credible or incredible
LM the board would have to see whether it warrants pursuing and how to pursue it
CE what shocked you about SMs speech was her vilification of the women's sector
LM yes
CE and you say something similar later on about her criticsm of the women's sector -
LM I said she was entitled to her views
CE you don't mention transgender people, trans rights or gender identity or sex realist beliefs of the LGBT community at all
LM no
CE so you're giving the impression the problem that you have is ONLY about what SM said about women's sector
LM "yes and being on the platform in the first place"

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