"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 8

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)
Thread 6, 04-Nov to 05-Nov; RH (day 10), SW (day 11)
Thread 7, 05-Nov to 11-Nov; SW (day 11), closing submissions

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence now complete. Submissions are being made on November 11th. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

Sweeney has given us a fabulous example to counter the “what about the men’s feelings?”.

if ever asked this in future (by a woman) I can ask if she’s ever got her keys out or crossed a road seeing a man approaching late at night in the street? When she says yes I can ask her why she did that - had he known he’d have been horribly offended. She should have considered his feelings! How selfish of her to be concerned!

Sandie Kemp is probably going to be best remembered in expressions like, ‘made a right Kemp of himself’, rather than as an even mildly competent jurist, I would guess.

"Made a right Kemp of himself." "Totally Kemped it up." "Got the ruling arse about Kemp." "Issued a Kemp load of corrections." I expect he's earned lasting fame, of a sort.

I thought the same. Is it some strange reaction of the camera to men in dresses? Or is a picture worth a thousand words?

I've asked the BBC to explain this. It might be interesting to see what happened if enough of us did.

Legal feminists analysis of the judgement is a joy. Highly recommended. 🤭

Did they not also change the photo of Rose at some point? I’m sure I read that somewhere.

Justin Webb is doing sterling work on the Today programme on this story. While for many in the BBC it's yesterday's news and it's now time to move on, for the third time in the first hour he's introduced it, once during the newspaper review and twice to guests being interviewed.

I always crack a wry smile when on BBC News 24 there's a string of BBC journos extolling Auntie going above and beyond re the search for truth and broadcasting of the facts, and nothing but the facts.
Bravery and honesty are what sets the BBC apart.
That smile comes as I then recall how trans ideology and the endless flow of stories associated have been covered.
Bravery and honesty are the last words I'd use.

My thoughts exactly. The most recent (I think) addition to the deluge of self-congratulation is the slogan that goes something like ”we don’t just report it, we live it”

No, just report it honestly, you sanctimonious numpties.

And yes, Justin Webb is a shining beacon of honesty and common sense.

Go Justin 👏 that dressing down he got on the behest of TRAs seems to have backfired somewhat.

Akua Reindorf has put the clip of her interview on Times Radio on a tweet https://x.com/akuareindorf/status/2012326216045375961

It's a very good listen

🤣

Misread that as dressing gown. I thought it might be some sort of kimono given him by one of the less fox-friendly TRAs

In fairness to the BBC, I doubt that he is doing this just on his own initiative. I'm sure his lines of questioning are shaped by an editorial team.

I complained about this to the BBC saying it was biased that they had high definition photos of the women and blurry photos of Rose and Dr Upton in their articles. They took a bit longer than ten days to get back to me( they sent an apologising holding email) and then said that it was to do with copyright of the photos which is obviously a cop out but I didn't pursue after that. They could use a still from video footage they've got or get better photos. I thought they might change the quality but apparently not.

The photos are ridiculous, it looks like they've smeared vaseline over the lens or something.

Not just any lawyer. A human rights lawyer.

Carolyn Quinn was very good on this when she presented R4 PM (I think) on an occasional basis. I once emailed the programme, some years ago, to say thanks for factual coverage, and got a personal reply for her.

it does seem to be backfiring on them more and more. They really shot themselves in the foot trying to take down Maya Forstater for example. 🤭

I woke up this morning and wondered how things were going for that ‘enjoy your erasure’ bloke from a decade ago. I expect it would be unkind to ask.

But … a DECADE we’ve been pushing back since that. A bloody decade. I am extraordinarily pissed off with Phillipson, Starmer and Streeting today, and I thought I was incandescent to start with.

🤣

Like 1984 closing with a hopeful promise of change.

The judgement reads so clearly that even the hardest of the comprehension fails must be able to understand the arguments - if they choose to.

It is so irrefutably logical. And addresses every ‘but what about…’ possible counterpoint. Whilst methodically, calmly, and in the most measured and respectful of tones acknowledges all perspectives but yet points out how the rights of biological men who identify as women cannot supersede the legal rights of women to dignity and privacy.

Surely (!) this must help bring about an emperor’s clothes moment? It would be nice to think of some having the scales fall from their eyes. But even if it’s ‘only’ to help clarify the law, without but making the slightest bit of difference to the ideologues, that’s a hopeful promise of change.

I don’t hold my breath for Phillipson. But do you think this judgement might give Starmer and Streeting pause for thought?

I think the ‘optics’ of the brave female NHS nurses being harassed and discriminated against by a male won’t have passed them by. But that’s about as deep as their actual ethics go regarding the humanity of women.

Starmer and Streeting, in respect of the biggest socialist issue since Dickens - sex class analysis and equal human rights - are frauds.

New thread that way->
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5476620-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-9

Brava the Nurses!