Trans Liberation Group

[BlueLegume]

The MP Zarah Sultana of Your Party has posed with a new group called The Trans Liberation Group. All fine if she truly believes men can be women. The group are active on X with a small following. They have a website. https://transliberationgroup.org.uk

They are also targeting students at universities to join Your Party. Again all fine if politics is the motive. Call me a cynic but I think students are very vulnerable and easily sucked into politics that look different. It feels like these Trans Liberation Group are trying to be less TRA and more mainstream. Either way they may suck in vulnerable groups.

I also find ZS somewhat disingenuous. She raves about Palestine but rails against Israel. She does know that Palestine and Hamas would not support her stance on Trans people surely?

To add they quote they say they are under ‘unprecedented threat in the UK’. From what? If anything they have more protection than the average man or woman as most employers are wary of upsetting or saying no to them.

"I also find ZS somewhat disingenuous. She raves about Palestine but rails against Israel. She does know that Palestine and Hamas would not support her stance on Trans people surely?"

Are you suggesting that those that don't support human rights universally aren't entitled to support for theirs? Like Gender Criticals?

Yeah. It’s like when you see Queers for Palestine m. You know damn well Hamas world kill them in a heartbeat if they went over there. Funny how this trans liberation group isn’t campaigning to put females with a trans identity in male prisons isn’t it. It’s all about the men.

Wow, no homophobia in the West? This is news. 🤪

Threat of being told no apparently. It’s the only thing they have to worry about.

I don't think you have to agree with everything someone else thinks in order to agree with them on some points. So if a group wants to call for Palestinian Rights alongside Trans Rights then that is up to them. (Though it runs the risk of derailment of main issue by side tracking on the secondary one.)

However given that in the UK trans people are protected from discrimination based on their trans status (sorry more accurately gender reassignment) and are allowed to marry and if anything are over represented in the media, I do wonder what rights they think they don't have that other people of the same sex do have. Because despite asking regularly I still haven't seen it explained.

I haven’t either. They have every right everyone else does. It seems they want extra rights as well, no matter who this impacts.

You're trying too hard.

Dial it down and you might convince some people you're arguing sincerely.

" I do wonder what rights they think they don't have that other people of the same sex do have. Because despite asking regularly I still haven't seen it explained."

Being of the same sex doesn't mean the levels of discrimination are the same despite legal protections. Wealthier, straight & white men/women are less likely to be discriminated against than poorer, queer men & women of colour.

I’ve given up engaging with that poster. His homophobia, misogyny, sexism and downright meanness towards women shine through.

Thank you for responding.

It is nice to know you agree that trans people have the same rights as everyone else. perhaps you can tell that to the 'TRAs' who appear to be wanting more rights by ignoring sex based rights?

Of course all sorts of people get discriminated against. That isn't however the same as rights. Quite happy to support people not being unfairly discriminated against. (Shall we start with the Darlington Nurses and Sandra Peggie who just wanted their single sex changing rooms?)

Trans liberation group 😂

What do they need liberated from? Oh yeah, they want liberation from the law that says they have to stay out of women's single sex spaces etc well they can't have it!

Did they mean their name to sound so militant? I don't think it does them any favours, it brings to mind the insane arm the dolls shite with all it's woman beating overtones.

Thank you for responding.

You're welcome.

"It is nice to know you agree that trans people have the same rights as everyone else. perhaps you can tell that to the 'TRAs' who appear to be wanting more rights by ignoring sex based rights?"

In terms of trans people that varies depending on the jurisdiction. In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else however that is being legally tested & given the logistic nightmare its creating may well change.

"perhaps you can tell that to the 'TRAs' who appear to be wanting more rights by ignoring sex based rights?"

The same rights as in freedom of choice isn't the same as wanting more rights.

"Of course all sorts of people get discriminated against. That isn't however the same as rights."

There is a legal right to be protected from certain forms of discrimination in both national & human rights law.

"Quite happy to support people not being unfairly discriminated against. (Shall we start with the Darlington Nurses and Sandra Peggie who just wanted their single sex changing rooms?)"

The incidents alleged by Dr Upton happened before the UK Supreme Court ruled that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law.

To paraphrase Monty Python, Liberated from reality I reckon.

@Howseitgoin In terms of trans people that varies depending on the jurisdiction. In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else however that is being legally tested & given the logistic nightmare its creating may well change.

I think what you are saying is that trans people don't have the right to use opposite sex toilets and changing rooms? That isn't the same as 'of their choice'. We have separate sex based facilities for various reasons as you well know. It isn't creating a logistic nightmare if trans people just obey the law.

If trans people want to campaign for additional third spaces I'm sure there would be a lot of support. It is a shame they didn't start off with this 10 years or more ago really.

If things are segregated by sex, surely that should be respected no matter what someone “identifies” as

Agree. We were told that 'rights aren't a pie', so there is no reason for single sex rights to be eroded.

I’m guessing they want to be liberated from biology?

sometimes we all do innit?

anyone for a 40 and 50 something women’s liberation group? My first demand is that menopause related itchiness is made illegal at the first opportunity

I’ll come back as I have given some thought to this now. I actually feel some sympathy for the group TBH. I am gender critical, I do not believe trans women are women or that trans men are men. I support their right to live as they feel as long as it does not impact me. I do not want a man in my spaces.

I am increasingly concerned that the trans community have been infiltrated by AGP males and am interested as to how the media will start to raise this issue.

My sympathy for this new liberation group is that people like ZS are not truly supportive-I cannot prove that I am aware. It just seems quite opportunistic of her to get people on board for Your Party. Akin to Zak Polanski stating he believes women can have male genitalia.

Our resident derailer has joined the chat I see.

I'm trying to sit on my hands, but this is 100% garbage: "In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else". No one in the UK, trans or not, has the choice of which public facilities (i.e. toilets) to use. That has always been the case.

In terms of targeting uni students, and concerns about them being vulnerable - back in the day, universities were hot beds of activism and many a comedy stereotyped the uni student as an ideological activist. I’m not concerned about their vulnerability to political activism.

With regard to vulnerable people being drawn to transitioning, I think this mostly comes from attaching themselves to the narrative that their emotional and psychological distress is caused by being ‘the wrong gender’ and that transitioning will help. I’m not sure on campus trans activism draws people in to transitioning, nor brings transition to their attention. I think social media does this.

"I think what you are saying is that trans people don't have the right to use opposite sex toilets and changing rooms? That isn't the same as 'of their choice'.

Cis people get their preference, trans people don't. That's discrimination based on gender.

"It isn't creating a logistic nightmare if trans people just obey the law."

It is in terms of policing & catering to competing rights. Businesses have already raised their objections on policing & cost as have women who feel it undermines the rights of all women by subjecting them to potential scrutiny & harassment particularly if they are gender non conforming.

"If trans people want to campaign for additional third spaces I'm sure there would be a lot of support. It is a shame they didn't start off with this 10 years or more ago really."

There wasn't really any need to campaign before the moral panic….

There is a major comprehension gap with this poster.

HUGE.

@Howseitgoin
In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else

This is just false under whatever scenario.

Sex-based scenario: no-one has the choice.

Self-ID scenario: everyone has the choice.

The above is actually too generous to your position, because there is a third category which we might call “Self-ID for trans people only”. Prison policy, for example, allowing trans-identifying people to choose which estate they entered but not permitting that to prisoners generally.

There is no equivalent fourth category of cases where non-trans people get to choose their facility but trans people are banned from doing so. Let alone your claim that this is the situation generally.

You must be aware of this, surely, given how much you comment on these boards.

...the moral panic that was created when women started objecting to being abused by men who had decided to aggressively colonise women only spaces?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes springs to mind here.