Trans Liberation Group

[BlueLegume]

The MP Zarah Sultana of Your Party has posed with a new group called The Trans Liberation Group. All fine if she truly believes men can be women. The group are active on X with a small following. They have a website. https://transliberationgroup.org.uk

They are also targeting students at universities to join Your Party. Again all fine if politics is the motive. Call me a cynic but I think students are very vulnerable and easily sucked into politics that look different. It feels like these Trans Liberation Group are trying to be less TRA and more mainstream. Either way they may suck in vulnerable groups.

I also find ZS somewhat disingenuous. She raves about Palestine but rails against Israel. She does know that Palestine and Hamas would not support her stance on Trans people surely?

Heck of a lot of “what we want” going on in the interview.

TBH I’m starting to think they all just have massive chips on their shoulders and too much time on the internet has convinced them this is their moment. They didn’t consider us pesky GC women and men who see right through the pretence and aren’t willing to acquiesce under the “be kind” banner or virtue signaling.

i came to this debate years ago, hoping to understand what it was that I was missing, how men could suddenly justify being in women-only sports, spaces & services. I read everything I could find that trans people had written, I spoke to transwomen in real life. Nobody has ever made a coherent argument to support their position.

#nodebate might be presented by Howse etc as people not being willing to discuss the existence of trans people (wtf?) but actually, it’s a genuine description of the strength if their argument. They have nothing beyond misogyny, homophobia and a desperate belief that they should have everything they want because they are men

Edited - pressed post too soon

These people are basically arguing that they have the right to do whatever they want, get whatever they want, change whatever they want.

Ultimately they are demanding the impossible. To me, that sums up the movement most accurately.

-Changing sex is impossible.
-Forcing other people to perceive you as something you are not is impossible.
-Forcing reality to bend itself around your whims and 'inner feelings' is impossible.

My supposition is that the impossibility of the goal is the point. It's a way of avoiding reality, because you are always occupied in the pursuit of an impossible goal. Because it's impossible, you will always be thwarted, and this feeds the story of how difficult your life is.

It's a very cruel story to sell children.

i came to this debate years ago, hoping to understand what it was that I was missing

Same here @Dragonasaurus. I've been looking for robust reasoning and solid arguments from trans supporters for about 10 years.
I used to be a bit #bekind. I couldn't see why an acquaintance of mine - a laid-back hippy type - was up in arms about a boy being included in girls' stuff at her daughter's school. I thought 'what's the harm?'
I set out to educate myself. And here I am.

In a nutshell.

It’s why they love to hate us too, because they’re involved in an endless fight against women who want to stop them doing what they want. They’re the heroes in a good v evil struggle they’ve confected.

It's a bit like when kids write those wish lists like "no bed times", "no school" and "sweets for breakfast"

These TRA groups inevitably fall apart due to internal power struggles and purity spirals so I give it about, ooohh, 25 minutes until Sultana is cancelled.

There are a lot of mad people in and around YP.

There are also people who aren't mad. I'm not a massive fan of Karie Murphy or James Schneider or Andrew Murray or the rest of Corbyn's kitchen cabinet, but they're serious people working on a long term plan.

The Gaza MPs and their local campaign groups are also not mad. Their beliefs are not mine, but I understand what they're trying to do.

But then you've got the element represented by Zarah Sultana and the Zoomer free radicals who are attracted to her, who'll never build anything because they have no patience and are not willing to put in the hard yards.

The ultimate expression of that being, I think, the Trans Liberation Group with their Cutted Up Pear Manifesto.

This is also why I think Zack Polanski stands a good chance of killing the Greens, because the GP's strength is a brand identity built up over decades of hard work, and if they aren't careful that could all be frittered away on get rich quick schemes.

their Cutted Up Pear Manifesto

😂

It's strange how many people can't make any sense of some of your posts, isn't it? We must all have comprehension issues, though we seem to be able to understand lots of other people.

I can only think that it is the sophistication of your arguments that defeats us all.

What always gets me is that they either don’t know their own history or they are pretending not to know it.

Access to NHS funded ‘transition’ surgeries and the GRA were both achieved via ‘intentional litigation’.

Current day terfy orgs are just using the tactics that Press For Change modelled for us 25-30 years ago.

I expect that’s it.

@akkakk Transwomen are not able to have privacy away from men - everywhere they go they take a man with them..

Excellent point😁

I’ll laugh my hypnotits off when that happens. I expect she’ll flounce to the Greens.

I don't expect the GP to last very much longer, tbh.

It's a crying shame. We NEED a party for the environment.

Instead we have a fatally compromised party of zealots, with various upcoming court cases that threaten to bankrupt it, and a con artist as leader.

The sad thing is what this movement has done to children and families over the last 10-15 years.
Trans activists moved on to universities after schools started to kick back at the behest of worried parents.
I know many trans young adults and none are happy a decade on. They're lonely and many have disrupted education. Some have had surgery others long term medication.
Trans people are welcome in my house and I will defend their right to exist but this is something people are right to question and not be threatened and bullied. There are less news stories lately and that I am thankful for.

This is one of the things that makes Joyce's book so powerful. She doesn't quite go to the point of devil's advocate, but she provides a detailed factual history and layouts, clearly, the best arguments for trans identity and treatment.

Instead what you get from TRAs is mythology (mostly appropriated) and analogy. E.g., Trans people have always existed. Trans people were targets of the NAZIS and victims of the Holocaust. Turing was a trans martyr. Trans people threw the first brick at Stonewall. Trans people nursed gay men during the AIDS crisis. Trans people fought for gay marriage.

Transphobia is the neo-appartide, the neo-Jim Crow, the neo-racism, the neo-genocide, the neo-white supremacy, the neo-section 28, the neo-mysogony, the neo-patriarchy, etc.

Thank you to everyone who has really engaged with this thread. It has been an interesting week with all the BBC news.

I hope TRAs and anyone who considers us GC people to be ogres/bigots stops and considers we are not awful.

We care deeply that women and children are able to feel safe. Safeguarding of children must be paramount. Children exposed to information about being able to change sex is just abuse.

I also have concerns that it seems to be biological men presenting as women who have hijacked the whole situation. There must be biological women who identify as men who have opinions on this?

Great to hear some sensible discussion today . Thank you

Hi, I came across these posts about queer people supporting Palestine and as a queer supporter of Palestine I want to make something very clear. My railing against the genocide and killing of children there is not contingent on their support of my lifestyle. That's not how making moral choices works. What is happening there is affecting queer people too - we exist everywhere no matter a government's stance on our existence. Those people do not deserve bombing and starvation. If you have a quick Google about the actual 'laws' surrounding being LGBTQ+ in Palestine, they might contradict your expectations too!

If you are truly interested in the safety of women then please look into the actual number of assaults in women's only spaces in the UK carried out by trans women. You will find nothing - I'd like to draw your attention to actual sexual assaults carried out by men (around 98% of them): there is much work to be done. When we demonise trans women, we blame one of the most marginalised groups in the UK for actual harm done by men - we put under threat the bodily autonomy of cis women (female at birth) who do not fit into societies standards of what a woman should be/look like. This disproportionately affects women of colour and has already lead to the humiliation and abuse of gender-non conforming women (butch lesbians, to name one group) in toilets. These arguments also leave a gaping hole when it comes to trans men (female at birth, now male), who in this instance will need to use female toilets. In the way that trans women are often indistinguishable from cis women, trans men often look like 'blokes' - this will make 'sneaking into the toilet by men who say they are trans' completely doable under the guise of being 'trans men'. Do you see how silly this is now?

Only 0.5% of people in the UK are trans. They want to be able to live their lives with dignity.

It's really important when we are considering 'arguments' like this we are radically honest with ourselves abut what we are hoping to find - and whether those hopes hinge on our comfortability around things we haven't experienced ourselves! If there's something you don't understand - ask! I hope this helps.

I'd like to draw your attention to actual sexual assaults carried out by men (around 98% of them)

As transwomen are men they are included in that statistic. It's their sex that is the issue not their trans status.

If you are truly interested in the safety of women then please look into the actual number of assaults in women's only spaces in the UK carried out by trans women. You will find nothing

I've been assaulted by a transwoman in a women's toilet.

I'd like to draw your attention to actual sexual assaults carried out by men (around 98% of them)

Transwomen are men.

we put under threat the bodily autonomy of cis women (female at birth) who do not fit into societies standards of what a woman should be/look like

You have absolutely no idea who you are talking to.