Trans Liberation Group

[BlueLegume]

The MP Zarah Sultana of Your Party has posed with a new group called The Trans Liberation Group. All fine if she truly believes men can be women. The group are active on X with a small following. They have a website. https://transliberationgroup.org.uk

They are also targeting students at universities to join Your Party. Again all fine if politics is the motive. Call me a cynic but I think students are very vulnerable and easily sucked into politics that look different. It feels like these Trans Liberation Group are trying to be less TRA and more mainstream. Either way they may suck in vulnerable groups.

I also find ZS somewhat disingenuous. She raves about Palestine but rails against Israel. She does know that Palestine and Hamas would not support her stance on Trans people surely?

@Howseitgoin "You're lucky if a few hundred biddies show up judging from the '100 days since the SC decision' 'march'." ......tell me you're a man without tellig me you're a man. Why are TRA's always so misogynistic?

In terms of trans people that varies depending on the jurisdiction. In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else

NOBODY has the right to use basic public utilities of their choice, everyone has to use the ones that correspond to their sex (if single sex provision). So Trans people have the same rights as everyone else

@Howseitgoin

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

biddy
/ˈbɪdi/

noun
DEROGATORY•INFORMAL
plural noun: biddies
a woman, especially an elderly one, regarded as annoying or interfering.
"the old biddies were muttering in his direction"

Well we muttered enough that the IOC and SC realised we were worth listening to. I call that a victory.

Yes, a quick google will confirm this too.

It will be interesting to see what the Good Law Project’s preference is. It may be to put all men and women together. However, some males don’t like unisex. They want to be in women’s toilets. It is rare in my research, that women of any gender prefer the men’s toilet over the women’s toilet and unisex.

Remember many disabled people don’t get the choice of a single sex toilet. They don’t even get the choice of which toilet cubicle to avoid.

Don't agree that they are trying to be less TRA and more mainstream. Look through their list if demands - it is 100% insanity turned up to the max. The core demands never change:

• Ability to choose sex in law
• Coercion of thought and speech of others, including legal punishment
• Expansion of taxpayer-funded body mod surgeries and drugs
• The application of all of this to children, including using drugs to prevent children from developing into full adults
• Programmes for indoctrination of children in schools and adults in workplaces

This will never be popular or accepted by the general public 🤷‍♀️

Cis people get their preference, trans people don't. That's discrimination based on gender.

I'm not sure what a Cis person is (somebody who really identifies with stereotypes like a trad wife?), but no woman has a right to choose to use the men's toilet, even if the queue for the women's toilet is really long.

Separate services can be offered on the grounds of age, sex and disability. The whole point is that there is no choice for anyone, so everyone is treated the same.

Ah I see Howse has found a new thread to piss all over and derail in his usual fashion

anyway, the trans liberation front and an MP idiotic enough to support them is just the latest in a long line of reality denying fuckwittery

@centaury good points. I suppose in adopting the ‘liberation’ title it appears less ‘activist’ which tends to feel combative. Liberation is erring on the side of ‘we are victims fighting for our freedom’.

For me the safeguarding issue of getting children on board before they understand that growing up is fraught at times and changing sex is impossible just feels wrong.

trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else

They have exactly the same right as every other man (for transwomen) or woman (for transman) - as a transwoman is a man - they simply wander into the gents - oooh look, toilets!

There is a legal right to be protected from certain forms of discrimination in both national & human rights law.

Good thing there is such little discrimination - it is not discrimination to tell people they can't have everything / be everything they demand (try looking after a toddler for a bit!)

The incidents alleged by Dr Upton happened before the UK Supreme Court ruled that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law.

Oh - you mean before the Supreme Court confirmed the law that had already existed for 10+ years - that law that was being breached!?!

I think you're right that they've picked liberation because it sounds like victims fighting for freedom, but if we know anything about the trans movement it's that the words they use to describe things rarely if ever map onto any real meaning!

Hello @Keeptoiletssafe glad you've joined the thread, I always value your contributions and you are so clear thinking with explanations as to why it's so important for single sex services.

@Keeptoiletssafe welcome! It has not escaped me that disabled campaigners have always done any campaigning for their rights with dignity and integrity. I have always felt like disabled people not only have their physical challenges to deal with but wrongly had to and continue to have to fight for access rights etc. I am always impressed at how articulate they are in terms of asking for what should be their right to be part of wider society.

The 2 leaders of Your Party attending events on the same day. Male/female ratio seems a tiny bit off...

So ^ firstly I am not in an echo chamber - lazy on your part in my opinion to suggest I am. ^

If you re read my comment, you will find I did not say you were. Rather another commenter was attempting to encourage you to. Big difference.

" When the trans activists ramped up their campaigns they literally used ‘no debate’ as a tagline. Why?"

The sentiment of 'no debate' is in the context of the absurdity of 'debating' human rights: That trans people's right exist & exist equally shouldn't be a topic of 'debate' because it is a human right.

"As one of my earlier posts stated I am gender critical. I do not believe anyone can change sex but I am adult enough to appreciate some people feel they need to present as the opposite sex. That is fine - just appreciate my space as my space and respect that as a biological female I want privacy away from men, however they present."

As do trans women.

And its important to note regarding public toilets, that one's privacy, is another's loss of privacy in terms of the trade off for the scrutiny & harassment all women & particularly gender non conforming ones will be subjected to by the 'transvestigator' police for what? 0.5%of the population?

"I am also interested in your understanding of AGP men. They seem to have exploded, no pun intended, into the workplace and society over the past 10 to 15 years. Why? If you want to cross dress fill your boots. But dragging, pun intended, it into every day life is pushing boundaries especially where children are concerned and the ‘be kind’ mantra has been used as a virtue signal that if we don’t accept what is at some level a fetish then we are ‘unkind’."

That individuals with fetishes exist doesn't impugn all trans people nor does it provide any certainty for the cause of gender dysphoria.

Are sexual perversions on the increase generally? I certainly suspect they are given the power of the porn industry. I heard a stat the other day that its estimated 1 in 100 men are now attracted to children. Horrifying. Should this impugn all men? Obviously not.

If it's any comfort, I qualify as a 'biddy' & a rather feisty one at that ….😆

@Howseitgoin
Trans women are men. I am allowed to have that opinion. It does not make me transphobic.

No debate means a one-sided debate, which no one should be advocating. This also applies to lobby groups and activists. Debate is healthy.

I agree, not all men are rapists but the majority of violence against women is by males. Presenting as female is a trans person’s prerogative but they will never be female.

Porn has a lot to answer for. Of the 100 men how do you know they all identify as male?

Sir Robert Winston stated that changing sex is not possible and I for one believe him.

Does everyone else see some posters posts and just picture the teacher from Charlie Brown. Apart from the word salad, there’s the total lack of facts and coherency.

Sadly with zero coherent logic to any of your points. I made the thread in good faith so am fine you putting forward your points. I do not have to agree with you.
You do not have to agree with me.

The SC and the IOC have made it clear trans women have no place in women’s sport. what are your views on this?

I'm just left thinking that I hope somebody has better arguments to explain gender ideology, because it would be so distressing if the police, prison services, law courts, and government had been guided for so long by such poor reasoning.

"Trans women are men. I am allowed to have that opinion. It does not make me transphobic."

No one is suggesting stating trans women are biologically 'male' is transphobia. What's transphobic in the true sense of 'a phobia' is an irrational fear of them.

"No debate means a one-sided debate, which no one should be advocating. This also applies to lobby groups and activists. Debate is healthy."

So are you suggesting the basic human rights of blacks, jews, women, gays are 'debate' worthy let alone 'healthy'? . There's this thing in Human Rights called 'inalienable rights' or 'natural rights' we are all entitled to.

"I agree, not all men are rapists but the majority of violence against women is by males."

Not all men & women offend at the same rate. Younger, poorer, straight men offend at substantially higher rates than older, wealthier gay men. Lesbians offend at substantially higher rates than straight women. And studies show lesbians offend at much higher rates than gay men. See where this is going?

Sadly with zero coherent logic to any of your points.

Perhaps a function of limited comprehension?

The SC and the IOC have made it clear trans women have no place in women’s sport. what are your views on this?

I agree with them that more science is required & until then they shouldn't be included in elite women's sports.

@Howseitgoin but people DO suggest you are transphobic unless you worship at the altar of trans activists.

Perhaps have a listen to the Seen in Journalism episode from this morning where these journalists discuss the trans stories completely ignored by the BBC - hopefully the link works.

seeninjournalism.substack.com/p/seen-in-journalism-the-bbc-bias-and

I am legally entitled to sex based protections. You don’t get to consent for me. That’s not how it works.

I would suggest trans activists campaign for their own space.

Some people suggest everything is racism, sexism, anti semitism, cancel culture, white genocide, immigrant invasion/replacement, grooming & on & on that the media as a whole broadly enable. But yeah, it's only the BBC who gild the lily..