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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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41
EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 12:40

Waitwhat23 · 11/11/2025 12:34

There's very few that I'm seeing saying sorry.

Seems to be mostly utter outrage that anyone point out any issues and an absolute bullheadishness to concede that perhaps that the general public have a point.

If the tone from senior male journalists had been a bit more contrite and conciliatory, if women had been included in any of these panel discussions and if they didn't keep claiming that anyone pointing out issues has been brainwashed into a right wing plot, they'd be getting on better.

As it is, they just look like a bunch of petulant children after a telling off.

Yes a lot of fighting talk rather than self reflection. How does that help?

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 11/11/2025 12:41

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:28

I think they are 'of the left'

Almost always well educated. Surburban. Female, or what I call the 'Soy Boys'. Middle / chattering classes.

There is probably a cool name for them somewhere on t'internet that sums it up.

Perhaps - well meaning liberals who are in such fear of the changing world around them that they have pulled up the drawbridge, shut the curtains and firmly stuffed their fingers in their ears?

GallantKumquat · 11/11/2025 12:43

Teribus21 · 11/11/2025 12:36

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/the-bbc-has-gaslit-the-public-over-trans/

A very good summation of the damage Tim Davie has done by embedding trans ideology at the BBC. I think it’s going to play a major part in what happens next at the BBC.

"If a politician, public figure or journalist cannot state that men do not give birth and lesbians do not have penises, they cannot be trusted to tell the truth about 👏 anything 👏 else 👏."

nicepotoftea · 11/11/2025 12:46

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:28

I think they are 'of the left'

Almost always well educated. Surburban. Female, or what I call the 'Soy Boys'. Middle / chattering classes.

There is probably a cool name for them somewhere on t'internet that sums it up.

Again, the BBC was in lock step with Conservative policy on this issue under May.

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 12:50

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:04

I see no signs of the BBC being able to even understand what the problem is, never mind fix it.

One thing I notice in life is that the left elites are totally unable to even articulate the viewpoints of the 'right' - they can only misrepresent them. They have been so captured by a sense of their own rightousness that despite all their protestations of being 'empathic' and 'listening', they literally cannot understand another point of view.

Examples are:

Expressing a concern about mass immigration = racist.

Expressing concern that Islam does not hold the same values towards women and homosexuality = islamaphobe
Expressing concern about men being in women's prisons = transphobe
Saying welfare cuts are needed and don't overall help people/nation = elitist
Saying people should get places at university / in a job, based on merit = exclusiionary

I could go on....but the point is that there is just an automatic labelling of people, a demonising with a 'bad name'. There is no attempt to understand a POV, no attempt to understand intentions and motivations, just an automatic dismissal and assumption that person = bad.

The BBC is literally full of these people, and they it will take a massive, huge undertaking to have these people even contemplate a different point of view - they have been so unused to it, never challeneged or felt discomfort when alternative views are heard. I don't hold much hope at all.

Imagine a person who supports Reform becoming the next DG at the BBC? It ain't ever ever happening.

It is entirely engrained and reinforced in hiring and promotion. They can’t see it so how can they fix the problem?

ArabellaSaurus · 11/11/2025 12:54

nicepotoftea · 11/11/2025 12:46

Again, the BBC was in lock step with Conservative policy on this issue under May.

Yes, indeed. It's not confined to the left, by any means. Cross party - just as the 'gc' pushback is cross party.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 13:33

As understatement goes, Tim Davie appeared to have mastered it as he presented the BBC’s annual report. Questions poured in over whether he had ever considered his position as a succession of problems landed on his desk this year. In response, he acknowledged he and the BBC had faced a “tough period”.

The failure to cut a Glastonbury livestream, missed opportunities to address the behaviour of former presenter Gregg Wallace and criticism over its handling of two Gaza documentaries have seen a huge amount of opprobrium heading the BBC’s way in recent weeks.

Guardian - 15th July 2025

The BBC is here for good reason…

EsmaCannonball · 11/11/2025 14:13

Anyone read Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed? Maybe the BBC could employ him as a consultant to reorganise around a culture of transparency and learning from mistakes instead of one of cancellations and defensiveness.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 15:03

ThatBlackCat · 11/11/2025 09:02

We don't give a stuff who is threatening it. That is what you in your political purist spiral doesn't understand. We really don't give a fuck who does it. As long as it is threatened, and pressure brought to bear.

Yes, the BBC has made mistakes.

Lol mistakes? Mistake is mislaying your car keys, accidentally pouring orange juice instead of milk in your coffee, or an organisation's IT dept making a coding mistake and accidentally deleting their website.

The BBC made a deliberate decision, a deliberate intentional action to manipulate and edit speeches, and to not cover the most important medical scandal since Thalidomide or Ancient Orange.

This BBC didn't make 'mistakes'. They made deliberate decisions. Stop trying to minimise what they did. These were no mistakes!

Elon Musk/Trump/their cabal of billionaires have been working for a few years on the messaging of ‘defund the BBC’ or, in fact, plenty of other countries’ national broadcasters such as the PBS in the US and the ABC in Australia. If any sniff of a scandal occurs

So it's batshit crazy that the BBC would intentionally give them ammunition, then, isn't it?

Everything that @ThatBlackCat said.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 15:13

Floisme · 10/11/2025 22:33

Well I agree, reform would to preferable to me.
My concern is that for reform to be possible, the BBC first needs to show awareness and insight into where and how things have gone wrong, and I’ve yet to see much sign of that happening.

This. They’re too arrogant and sure of their righteousness. There will have to be some element of coercion involved.

hholiday · 11/11/2025 17:52

Waitwhat23 · 11/11/2025 12:34

There's very few that I'm seeing saying sorry.

Seems to be mostly utter outrage that anyone point out any issues and an absolute bullheadishness to concede that perhaps that the general public have a point.

If the tone from senior male journalists had been a bit more contrite and conciliatory, if women had been included in any of these panel discussions and if they didn't keep claiming that anyone pointing out issues has been brainwashed into a right wing plot, they'd be getting on better.

As it is, they just look like a bunch of petulant children after a telling off.

This – and it really saddens me. TBH I can see why the bbc fell for trans activism in such a major way. A bunch of hugely privileged people who can’t comprehend their own privilege. A need to indulge in conspiracy theories about ‘sinister coups’ and alliances being out to get them, rather than reflect on whether their critics may have a point. They have a lot in common.

Chersfrozenface · 11/11/2025 17:59

I know the Evening Standard isn't the Metro but it has a Comment article entitled
"The BBC Trump falsehood isn't an aberration but a symptom
(subheader)
BBC groupthink goes beyond Trump to transgender issues, migration and Hamas"

and including the sentences

"As for the trans issue, a report by an independent BBC adviser, Michael Prescott showed that the Corporation’s very own LGBT desk exercises quasi-censorhip over coverage of the trans issue. It warned that the BBC is not only risking bias in its coverage of trans issues, but is confusing viewers by failing to make it clear that transgender women are biological males, or even transgender at all."

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/bbc-bias-coverage-donald-trump-immigration-trans-b1257582.html

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 18:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 15:13

This. They’re too arrogant and sure of their righteousness. There will have to be some element of coercion involved.

Decrease in fee payers might help.

logiccalls · 11/11/2025 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Chersfrozenface · 11/11/2025 18:24

Also...

There's been a blink-and-you'll-miss-it reference to the Darlington nurses employment tribunal on the Six O'clock News on the BBC this evening After deafening silence throughout the hearing.

I wonder why tonight of all nights

Actually, no I don't.

WarriorN · 11/11/2025 18:46

EsmaCannonball · 11/11/2025 14:13

Anyone read Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed? Maybe the BBC could employ him as a consultant to reorganise around a culture of transparency and learning from mistakes instead of one of cancellations and defensiveness.

now that’s a book I feel I want to read

DustyWindowsills · 11/11/2025 18:46

Today I've been half-listening to podcasts while trying to work.

In The Rest is Entertainment, Marina Hyde gave a clear summary of the trans component of the story. That was good.

In The Rest is Politics, Rory Stewart introduced the story by saying that the DG was brought down by two issues, coverage of Trump and Gaza. Later, Alastair Campbell briefly mentioned the BBC's trans coverage along with some bluster about how young people think it's transphobic. Obviously no other viewpoint counts. 😠

SEEN in Journalism said that the immediate cause for the DG's resignation is unlikely to be the Panorama prog, as other heads could have rolled. They reckon the DG had just had enough of the poisoned chalice, not least the impossibility of making any progress with the trans issue. I'm going to listen to them again tomorrow, to make sure I've understood that bit.

TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:00

TortillaKitty · 11/11/2025 06:23

My definition of ‘national broadcaster’ is not a North Korean one-channel propaganda machine. By no stretch of the imagination can the BBC, PBS, or ABC be called propaganda machines and you would be delusional to think so. If you did, however, remove broadcasters like this and allow channels like FOX and GB News to thrive - they are much closer in nature to propaganda, and many people haven’t been taught the ability to discern deep bias in news, or detect the difference between opinion and news.

I am saddened, but not surprised, that so many have been so deeply psychologically manipulated by greedy billionaires who don’t care about them and never will.

Delusional is quite strong, becoming captured by the state or a special interest is clearly a real issue, we can see that it has happened. If a country like New Zealand or Canada began to move toward some kind of dictatorship (and who's to say it couldn't happen,) t's very likely those institutions would become the kind of government tools we see elsewhere.

An interesting thing with the PBS is that unlike the BBC or some others, it relies a lot on direct donations from members of the public. It doesn't seem to have made it more resilient in this case, so maybe that doesn't count for much, I don't know.
From my observations, having a healthy and varied variety of media seems to be the most important thing.

TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:25

I don't think anyone is "cheering" the demise of the BBC or public broadcasting as such.

There are a few differernt things going on imo:

Some think change is possible and hope this is the wake up that will change their course.

Some think change is not possible and there needs to be a clean slate. I think many of these people believe that without all new staff the rot can't be scraped out.

Some think that this has revealed that public broadcasting is not more robust than private and so shouldn't be getting state funds.

None of that is cheering, they are all pretty reasonable conclusions that seem to fit the evidence.

TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:36

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 12:50

It is entirely engrained and reinforced in hiring and promotion. They can’t see it so how can they fix the problem?

I think this is it.

Despite all the emphasis in sex, gender, and racial diversity, there is actually almost no real diversity among the staff.

What they are typically, regardless of those other things, is from university educated, urban or sometimes suburban, middle class or upper middle class families. And their worldview and politics reflect that more than anything else.

A healthy media depends on people coming from really differernt perspectives which in this case would mean people who did not come through journalism studies and universities, people who are not all rural, and people from differernt kinds of economic backgrounds.

Which should be easy, because no one needs a degree to be a good journalist.

Taytoface · 11/11/2025 19:47

It's not just the BBC. Look at the NHS. Consultant class and the army of under educated over paid HR bods more likely to come from white middle class backgrounds. They have been letting men change with women, no questions asked.

Nursing staff, lower paid, much more likely to be from working class backgrounds. They have MUCH less power in the overall structures and have had to sue the fuck out of everybody to simply get changed with no men in the room.

TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:49

Ack, should have said, "not all urban" above.

Rural and village perspectives are very underrepresented.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 20:31

Taytoface · 11/11/2025 19:47

It's not just the BBC. Look at the NHS. Consultant class and the army of under educated over paid HR bods more likely to come from white middle class backgrounds. They have been letting men change with women, no questions asked.

Nursing staff, lower paid, much more likely to be from working class backgrounds. They have MUCH less power in the overall structures and have had to sue the fuck out of everybody to simply get changed with no men in the room.

Edited

Yes, exactly.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 11/11/2025 22:19

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 11/11/2025 09:46

Try questioning the output of Rossiya 1 from within Russia - see how long it is before you hear the knock on the door.

I don't think that any news coverage can actually be impartial, you can try to be impartial and be open to criticism.

This is an example of whatabouttery.

Stop it.

EsmaCannonball · 11/11/2025 22:40

TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:36

I think this is it.

Despite all the emphasis in sex, gender, and racial diversity, there is actually almost no real diversity among the staff.

What they are typically, regardless of those other things, is from university educated, urban or sometimes suburban, middle class or upper middle class families. And their worldview and politics reflect that more than anything else.

A healthy media depends on people coming from really differernt perspectives which in this case would mean people who did not come through journalism studies and universities, people who are not all rural, and people from differernt kinds of economic backgrounds.

Which should be easy, because no one needs a degree to be a good journalist.

I once worked at a broadcasting organisation that ran an annual internship programme for BAME people. (BAME was the fashionable term then.) The people they chose were literally all public school, Oxbridge, Ivy League types; not just middle class but rich. Most of them came from families who had worked and travelled around the world and some of them had already done internships at big American media companies. The internship was paid but not one of them could have afforded to live in London without some kind of parental help.

I also knew an Oxbridge graduate in the BBC's Talent Pool (for 'Talent Pool' read 'entry level jobs on a zero hours basis') who could only afford to do that job because her parents already lived in London. I know someone from an ordinary lower-middle class background who did the BBC journalism trainee scheme but even he said he could only do it because his parents gave him a few thousand pounds towards his living costs.

They have no idea how un-diverse they are.