Would a biological woman identifying as a trans woman be accepted in the trans community?

[quickquestion12345]

Just curious really if this is something that happens. And if not, what the argument (by trans people) would be against it. Sorry if it’s been covered before. Just been working through some stuff in my head and started to wonder about this!

I guess if you want me call you him/sir and you say you want to be a man?! Otherwise no.

I guess if you don't believe a transwoman is an actual woman then it figures you don't think a woman could (in any meaningful way) claim to be a transwoman. The definition of transwoman is a man who wants to be a woman. A woman who wants to be a woman just is one.

So a “transwoman” is a man. Awesome. I don’t think anyone believes they are actual women. The proof is in what happens when women say no they are not women. Actual women are ignored and belittled. The men claiming womanhood are venerated and appeased.

Well it’s a thought experiment to want to be another sex. The only evidence is wearing symbols of gender. You don’t know what’s in my mind.

So it’s a transition. It’s valid. No? Explain why?

Gawd knows. If you say you're trans then I'll believe you I suppose. I am getting pretty confused now tbh?! 🤣

Gender is male, female, non binary etc or however someone wishes to be viewed.
Sex is defined by chromosomes which result in a man or a woman and that can’t be changed.

Errr no. Because you do know animals and plants also have male and female sexes. Or are you suggesting dogs are choosing how they wish to be viewed 😂😂😂😂😂

Ok so I’ll change a couple of key words to help you

‘Sex is defined by chromosomes which result in a MALE or a FEMALE and that can’t be changed.’

Yes. I know. You’re the one arguing male and female are genders.

You can use male and female to describe your gender.

You can if you’re an idiot yes. Nothing stopping you.

If someone says "I'm female", or "female-only", maybe for a women in STEM mentoring opportunity, how do you know if they mean sex or gender?

Would it not be helpful to have different words for sex and gender instead of trying to force fit gender into services and language based in sex?

How do you describe yourself?
Im female and born female so i say I'm female. I’d hardly say that makes me an idiot… which I am far from

Yes. That’s your sex. Nothing to do with gender. Gender is a lot of outdated sexist stereotypes.

What words do you suggest? It makes no relevance to me what anyone identifies as, I don’t need to know people’s biological sex. If someone tells me there a female ok you’re female (whether they are or aren’t that’s how they want to be seen/addressed so that’s just what I’ll go with)

Well we can go with man if you’re male or woman if you’re female?

Which is exactly what I’ve said 🤦‍♀️

So by that logic why is it socially acceptable for trans people to say they are something they are not? If a biological man wants to be a trans woman why can they say they’re a woman if they’re not? They’re biologically a male but describe their gender as female.

Because they’re determined to invade female spaces. They’re not women, they’re not female, they just want to force other people to view them as such. They are male and men.

I support people who experience gender finding their own new language to name their feelings. It is not for me to impose words for their feelings onto them, any more than it is for them to impose new meanings on the words we already used for sex.

It just needs to be different to the pre-existing language of sex.

Because as you can see, using the same words to mean different things is distressing trans people who believe their gender should entitle them to be treated as the opposite sex simply because of a coincidence of naming, and also distresses people who do not identify as a particular gender but nevertheless are finding people assume they do simply because of the name of their sex.

The latter is especially pernicious for women (in the sex based meaning of the word) since the gender associations of "woman" are often infantilsing, trivialising, over sexual or otherwise offensive or belittling. This is why many women (in the sex based meaning) do not recognise anything of themselves and their lives as women in the gender identity expression of trans women.

Yes, different language for different things would be fairer all round.

Just imagine, if only the genderist community had embraced their gender as additive to rather than exclusive of sex this whole argument and all the distress it causes need never have happened!

It should not be socially acceptable.

Not because their feelings are wrong, but because they have picked the wrong name for them. The thing a trans woman feels is not at all the same thing as being physically female and so it should not be labelled as if it were the same.

Ahahaha please someone post this question in Reddit 😂

That’s nice for you, but do you think everybody else must also do the same? For example some women don’t want a man doing their smear tests. You might not care, but that’s your choice. Some women might not care if a convicted sex offender does their smear without gloves on, but that doesn’t mean it’s reasonable for all women.

Man and woman are very clear to all ages and levels of education and language backgrounds. It should not be confusing for anybody no matter how disadvantaged and vulnerable they are, it should never become a barrier to communicating clearly.

You’ve read something I’ve wrote and interpreted what you think I mean by it, I haven’t said or implied I’d be ok with any of the scenarios you gave or even anything to the equivalent of that.

Perhaps, I went by the part where you said if a person said they were a female, that’s what they were to you. It didn’t matter if they were biologically female or not.

I do think it’s important to be clear, for other people, who are not posting on mumsnet and debating, but are still worthy of consideration and care.

'Trans' is surely identifying as something you are not already. If someone can transition from one 'gender identity' to another then there is no logical reason why a 'cis' woman could not find herself identifying as a man who identifies as a woman. Why not? It is all 'gender' isn't it. How do you know how someone else feels?