Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

I'm be fine with my child calling the teacher by the first name, such as 'Caroline'. However, changing pronouns or using Ms would not be ok.

Having respect for others' beliefs does not compel us to demonstrate that belief and then expressing that through language or any other action. The child's belief is that this person is male and that belief must also be respected, no? Particularly as it is our current scientific understanding and supported by law.

What, being forced to collude in a dishonest man’s delusion? In a girls’ school?

"What similarities did he have with modern day men who want to be women, pray tell?

Common social & cultural associations/inclinations.

I assume you are referring to the elephant man who couldn't help his physical condition?

The point you are spectacularly missing is the dehumanising & demonising of the non conforming.

And how do you know "they can't help it"?

I am not engaging with the interruptatonasaurus.

"Oi, Smithy! Yes you; the bloke in a dress."

MN doesn't allow hate speech. It is effectively moderated. Show me any post before yours that includes hate speech. You probably won't even be able to show me one following yours that includes hate speech, because it will be reported and deleted promptly.

Couldn't agree more! 👏

pandering to these men, forcing young girls to pretend that he's a woman...fuck sake. Just NO!!!

I agree. Respect should work both ways. A transperson may prefer certain ways of being addressed but that’s all they should be able to. Make it a preference rather than compulsory. That way they are respecting others beliefs rather than trying to force their own onto others.

Even if your 99.9% statistic were true you would have no way to know that. Literally by definition you don’t notice the ones who pass because you don’t even know they are trans.

I'd say they are a social contract that signals respect for other people's dignity, when used conventionally.

When you are demanding a title that is not yours to claim (eg. if I asked to be called Lady Teddy or Dr Teddy) then it's actually signalling something very different, and smacks of controlling behaviour (and in some cases, fraud).

It's certainly a safeguarding failure, as by using female pronouns for a male, you're hiding a material part of their risk profile.

Just call them what they want to be called. You can twist it into somehow infringing your rights to hold your beliefs but how does this help society? Save your protest for when it matters (e.g. when the school insists that this teacher can monitor the toilets, or when the teacher tries to convince kids they are born in the wrong body or any other safe guarding issue).

If I insisted on following my belief system for every little thing my life would be full of unnecessary conflict till the point where no one spoke to me anymore. Im an atheist and think people who have faith are deluded but I dont need to make thst clear to every person of faith I meet especially when they aren't hurting anyone with their faith.

Your daughter could see the address as part of the name. So 'Miss Smith' is her full name, the name she wants to be called by. It's like calling a girl Jo or Sam or George if that's what they want to be called. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone why are you unnecessarily creating conflict?

They are a belief system.

This. Just don't use his name, at all.

Are there other male teachers?

It's not fraudulent if there's an association. Definitions rely on associations which gender provides.

You know they had surgery? When/how did the teacher share that! That seems hugely inappropriate.

Hang on a moment. This person has been called a complete bastard, a pervert, and a fetishist (and yes, those posts have been deleted but still), for doing nothing more than apparently being trans and a teacher.

We know he's not a woman. We know he shouldn't be allowed in single sex spaces. But he's still allowed to work and generally exist in society within the law. He can dress how he likes, he can call himself what he likes. OP hasn't said he's done anything wrong, she's asking for help for her daughter to navigate it.

Lady could be a name. Do you also object to calling Madonna Madonna even though i highly doubt she is the mum of jesus?

I don't and won't call a priest 'Father', because it's not my religion. I don't say 'peace be upon him' every time I say 'Mohammed'. Insisting I have to do so is the same deal.

This is a good response.
The OP needs to address this at parent level getting the school to clarify how they are managing the issue, whether there would be any consequences for children who accurately sex this man and asking for clarification re his role in changing rooms, toilets, medical care etc. This is a parent's role with the onus being put on the school to clarify how they are safeguarding children

Your daughter also needs protecting. So many adherents of this ideology use extreme bullying, intimidation and threats to push their niche views. They wouldn't hesitate to target your DD. In the light of that (not saying it's right to bow down to bullies but it is the grim reality for women and girls) whatever decisions she makes, need to be with an eye on her safety and wellbeing.

Put the onus on the school to explain how they will balance all this and ensure all children are safeguarded.

Grammatical gender is based on sex. The association is with a person's sex, not with their fashion choices or feelings.

Demanding someone uses the wrong pronouns for your sex is absolutely fraud (not in the legal sense obviously, but in the attempting to deceive sense)

I'm sure it's not uncommon for some issue in the girls' changing room to be reported. That should surely be followed up by a female teacher entering the changing room, where some girls may be changing. Otherwise it becomes a prime location for bullying and potentially sexual assault by boys entering the changing room.

Is 'their preferred name and pronouns' really a preference? I have a preference to be taken out for a curry rather than being given takeaway fish and chips; if someone doesn't take my preference into account, I have no cause to complain.

I think what we are talking about is a demand.

There were. The thread was shut. I assume they were deleted. So in one sense you are right, but at least one poster is still posting
.

I was obviously talking about titles, not names.

Although actually, if you tried to officially use a reserved title (eg Prince) as a name, the registrar will likely reject it as misleading.