Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

1000 replies

KnottyAuty · 06/11/2025 06:50

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
halfandhalfchipsandrice · 06/11/2025 11:50

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 08:11

I'd say chopping your cock off is pretty full on. Some trans women do that. Some also have breast implants. Again, quite full on.

You know very well that the VAST MAJORITY of men keep their penis when they are pretending to be women.

The reason some of them have plastic/false breasts is very obvious.

Holdmeclosertinydancer2018 · 06/11/2025 11:50

Howseitgoin · 06/11/2025 11:47

Kinda like "those who shall not be named"? AKA Voldemort?

There's an iconic film called The Elephant Man that some people could really benefit from…

I mean, is it any wonder bullying is rampant with parental advice like this?

I assume you are referring to the elephant man who couldn't help his physical condition?

What similarities did he have with modern day men who want to be women, pray tell?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:51

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:50

I'm not sure any teacher should be entering the children's changing room.

Then you have not thought it through. A huge amount of bullying and sexual assaults happen in changing rooms, thats why, based on sex, teachers will access those spaces.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:52

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:51

Then you have not thought it through. A huge amount of bullying and sexual assaults happen in changing rooms, thats why, based on sex, teachers will access those spaces.

Yes I have. And no, I don't agree that is the way to prevent bullying in the changing room.

Floisme · 06/11/2025 11:52

I agree with your concerns op, about compelling pupils to use the teacher's preferred pronouns. I don't think it's harmless.

I would also be concerned about my child getting in over her head with her school about this. I've not seen how old she is (sorry I've not read every post) but I assume she's still a child and I would worry whether she fully understood the impact any kind of resistance could potentially have on her education and her friendship groups.

I don't think children should be the ones having to fight this so I'd advise her to keep her head down, and yes, if push came to shove, that would include using the teacher's preferred form of address. At the same time, I would take it up on her behalf with the school (which would scare me shitless but there you go).

Toutafait · 06/11/2025 11:52

Howseitgoin · 06/11/2025 11:47

Kinda like "those who shall not be named"? AKA Voldemort?

There's an iconic film called The Elephant Man that some people could really benefit from…

I mean, is it any wonder bullying is rampant with parental advice like this?

He was your dad, and let you get away with it. This man won't want OP's daughter to get away with it. Being called Miss by all pupils and staff will be very important to him.

halfandhalfchipsandrice · 06/11/2025 11:53

dementedpixie · 06/11/2025 11:04

Very few trans women cut off their penis (is it not something like >80% keep it). A lot of them like having a penis for their 'euphoria boners'.

I think it's nearer 95% that keep their cocks.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:53

halfandhalfchipsandrice · 06/11/2025 11:50

You know very well that the VAST MAJORITY of men keep their penis when they are pretending to be women.

The reason some of them have plastic/false breasts is very obvious.

I know the vast amount of trans people don't have bottom surgery for a variety of reasons.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:54

dizzydizzydizzy · 06/11/2025 11:46

Obviously I know that. What the kids have to call the teacher has no impact on how that teacher teaches them. It seems like a total non-issue to me.

Because teachers are not there just to teach. They also have other duties.

It also lowers children's boundaries by confusing which people belong to which sex category in their mind.

For many children, those who need to use accurate language around sex, it also causes not just confusion but it causes them stress. Stress that they don't want to use female language for a male person, stress that they will slip up and be punished or shamed, or just stress that they don't want to do what people are telling them to do which makes them feel they are doing something wrong.

There are quite a few reasons why this is not a 'non-issue'.

oldtiredcyclist · 06/11/2025 11:54

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:50

I'm not sure any teacher should be entering the children's changing room.

It was quite normal in my day, to have a male teacher overseeing the boys changing and a female teacher to oversee the girls changing. It was done to prevent bullying.

tapaw · 06/11/2025 11:54

My DD had a teacher who was trans. Born male, identified as female, had surgery/name change. There was no issue at all. Teacher was excellent, supportive, DD got a 9 in the GCSE.

Can't your DD just ask a question with "excuse me?" or something? Shouldn't need to use pronouns at all.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:55

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:52

Yes I have. And no, I don't agree that is the way to prevent bullying in the changing room.

pray tell, what would YOU do?

And anyway, that is what they do so......

Toutafait · 06/11/2025 11:55

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:52

Yes I have. And no, I don't agree that is the way to prevent bullying in the changing room.

Please explain what should happen if someone is being attacked in one of the changing rooms. A pupil fetches a teacher. Should the teacher wait outside the changing room until the attack has run its course?

Howseitgoin · 06/11/2025 11:55

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 06/11/2025 11:47

But this is a clear example of the imposition of a social "convention". Up to about ten years ago, pronouns (in my lengthy experience) were always based on the user's perception of sex, not on the addressed person's self image. The attempt to change the social convention has been underhand and coercive. It is not surprising that there is now resistance to this.

It is as if audible prayer in public had been socially normalised, with a requirement for everyone within earshot to say an audible Amen!

An option of a preferred "Ms" has been around for decades as has preferred 'name'. Clearly that's the addressed person calling the shots.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:56

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:14

I have got carried away @KnottyAuty

Reasons Why a Pupil Should Not and Cannot Be Compelled to Use Wrong-Sex Pronouns

Gender identity is a subjective belief system and ideology, not an objective fact It is contested and not shared by the majority of people, who recognise sex as binary and immutable. Compelling anyone, especially a pupil in a school setting, to use pronouns or titles that contradict biological sex amounts to forced participation. This violates legal protections, safeguarding principles, and basic human rights....

Point by point....

1. It Enforces a Contested Belief System on Others

Gender identity is an ideology akin to a religious or philosophical belief, not a universal truth. Forcing pupils to use wrong sex pronouns requires them to affirm and participate in this belief, even if they hold gender-critical views. Schools cannot compel adherence to one ideology while ignoring others, as this discriminates against GC beliefs, which are protected under equality laws.
In an our society, no one is forced to practice or affirm others' religions or ideologies, so a pupil isn't required to recite prayers or affirm supernatural claims. Just the same, GC pupils should not be coerced into affirming that a male can be a woman, as this erodes mutual respect and tolerance.

2. Power Imbalance and Coercion Make It Abusive

Teachers hold authority over pupils, with the ability to issue detentions, behavior points, or other punishments for non compliance. This creates a coercive environment where pupils fear repercussions for not participating in the teacher's ideology, turning education into indoctrination.
Such compulsion is Orwellian, compelling people to parrot lies as truth under threat, which undermines free thought and expression. It's not voluntary politeness but enforced speech, which can lead to broader societal harm, like court cases where victims are forced to use wrong-sex pronouns for their abusers.

3. Safeguarding Risks to Children

Requiring pupils to ignore their senses (spotting a male in the females) dulls instincts and teaches them to disregard potential threats, which is a major safeguarding failure. This is especially dangerous in a girls' school, where an authority figure insisting on female pronouns could normalise boundary violations and increase vulnerability to grooming or exploitation.

Pronouns act like Rohypnol, numbing natural perceptions of sex differences. Forcing this on children prioritises an adult's feelings over pupils' safety and mental well-being, distracting from learning and causing cognitive dissonance.

4. Legal and Policy Protections Prohibit Compulsion

No one can be legally compelled to use preferred pronouns if it conflicts with their beliefs. Government guidance and ministers have confirmed that schools cannot enforce this, as it violates protections for philosophical beliefs under human rights laws. Pupils have the right to express GC views without punishment, and schools must accommodate this, not suppress it.
If a school enforces wrong-sex pronouns, it signals intolerance for GC beliefs, breaching equality duties.

5. It Undermines Education and Mental Focus

Pupils are in school to learn, not navigate ideological minefields. Constant mental gymnastics, avoiding natural language or forcing unnatural pronouns diverts energy from education and creates unnecessary stress. This is amplified in a power-imbalanced setting, where fear of punishment could lead to self-censorship or isolation from peers.

6. Majority Non Agreement and Broader Societal Harm

Most people do not subscribe to gender ideology - surveys show widespread recognition of sex as binary. Compelling minority beliefs on the majority erodes social harmony, as it prioritizes one group's demands over others'. This can lead to resentment, as the ideology requires everyone to play along and be nice unlike other beliefs that don't demand universal participation.
It sets a precedent for further issues, such as males accessing female spaces which directly impacts safety and privacy. In a girls' school, hiring a male teacher who demands female pronouns already blurs these boundaries. I see red flags.

7. Anti-Science and Morally Dubious

Sex is a biological fact, not a feeling. Forcing pupils to affirm otherwise promotes anti science rubbish, teaching them to lie about observable reality. This is morally wrong, as it prioritises adult validation over children's truthfulness and development.

This is absolute garbage. You as a parent should be rejecting this at the highest level for all these reasons.

This is before we ask what the schools policy is about trans identifying males in a female only school? I assume you have asked....

sorry to keep quoting myself but @dizzydizzydizzy this is the answer to:

"I don't understand why your DD can't just call this teacher Ms Smith. I can't honestly see it matters to anyone what a teacher wants to be called or what their gender identity is."

Holdmeclosertinydancer2018 · 06/11/2025 11:57

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:54

Because teachers are not there just to teach. They also have other duties.

It also lowers children's boundaries by confusing which people belong to which sex category in their mind.

For many children, those who need to use accurate language around sex, it also causes not just confusion but it causes them stress. Stress that they don't want to use female language for a male person, stress that they will slip up and be punished or shamed, or just stress that they don't want to do what people are telling them to do which makes them feel they are doing something wrong.

There are quite a few reasons why this is not a 'non-issue'.

Agreed. We are teaching our children to accept being gaslit, in essence. Which is interesting considering than in any other relationship, pretty much every woman on MN would instruct the recipient to terminate the relationship.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:58

oldtiredcyclist · 06/11/2025 11:54

It was quite normal in my day, to have a male teacher overseeing the boys changing and a female teacher to oversee the girls changing. It was done to prevent bullying.

Lots of things were normalised in previous days. Personally I went to a girls' school where they stopped that happening when I was in Year 8 due to some incidents with female teachers. They also stopped forcing us to shower after PE at that time too.

JustSawJohnny · 06/11/2025 11:58

Honestly, I'd encourage mine to comply, even if it stings.

She's obviously 100% entitled to her beliefs but she needs to decide if this is a hill she wants to die on because things could get REAL messy, especially with her peers.

This issue is such a hot topic for kids right now, rightly or wrongly. She needs to understand that raising her head above the parapet could bring on some unwanted and very negative attention, especially if standing alone.

If she's not ready for backlash and the possibility of losing friends I'd encourage her to go along with it and maybe take her to a rally or talk so she has a place where she can share her views without causing herself any potential personal issues.

It's not about shutting her down, it's about keeping her peace at school and teaching her about ways in which she can get involved in effective campaigning, which is arguably more likely to bring about real change.

Horrible choice, I know.

OnAShooglyPeg · 06/11/2025 11:59

There's two strands to this - what you do, and what your daughter does.

You need to engage the headteacher either in writing or in person and make sure your understanding of the scenario is correct, and discuss what happens next. You need to make sure they know your discomfort and that your child will not be compelled to use language against their beliefs or participate in someone else's delusion.

Your child has to decide how to address this. I would be inclined to go with the less drastic option of simply remaining neutral and not using any form of sex-based pronoun or title. Depending on what they are teaching, it may be possible to simply grey rock them, although not ideal. Alternatively, your child could protest, but as with someone who speaks up in the workplace, they (and you!) must be aware of what comes after in terms of processes, punishment, and likely outcomes.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 12:00

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:50

I'm not sure any teacher should be entering the children's changing room.

Regardless of whether you think a teacher should be entering in a child's changing room, the very same thing applies to any situation where safeguarding may be an issue.

If you wish to dismiss the example, go for it. The principle of the messaging remains the same regardless of whether you believe in the scenario or not.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 12:00

Toutafait · 06/11/2025 11:55

Please explain what should happen if someone is being attacked in one of the changing rooms. A pupil fetches a teacher. Should the teacher wait outside the changing room until the attack has run its course?

If people were in such immediate danger, of course they'd enter to stop it happening. But for teenagers just changing their clothes, it is not necessary for them to supervise us so closely in a state of undress.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 06/11/2025 12:02

noblegiraffe · 06/11/2025 07:37

If anyone wants to back-up with evidence the idea that MN is transphobic they can just use this thread where an entirely unknown teacher is being described as a disgusting pervert wanting to bully girls merely because they are trans.

There are unreasonable people all over the internet, as well as normally reasonable people who sometimes get carried away into unreasonable or excessive behaviour. MN has effective moderation, so anyone can report an abusive post and MN moderators will delete the post if they judge it to contravene site standards. The result is that there is no post before the one I have quoted that is transphobic, and your claim that "an entirely unknown teacher is being described as a disgusting pervert wanting to bully girls" is not an accurate reflection of MN.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 12:02

Toutafait · 06/11/2025 11:55

Please explain what should happen if someone is being attacked in one of the changing rooms. A pupil fetches a teacher. Should the teacher wait outside the changing room until the attack has run its course?

I believe that is the level of thinking behind it.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 12:02

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:55

pray tell, what would YOU do?

And anyway, that is what they do so......

About what?

My kids aren't supervised by teachers in the changing rooms either.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 12:02

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 06/11/2025 12:02

There are unreasonable people all over the internet, as well as normally reasonable people who sometimes get carried away into unreasonable or excessive behaviour. MN has effective moderation, so anyone can report an abusive post and MN moderators will delete the post if they judge it to contravene site standards. The result is that there is no post before the one I have quoted that is transphobic, and your claim that "an entirely unknown teacher is being described as a disgusting pervert wanting to bully girls" is not an accurate reflection of MN.

Posts were reported and deleted.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.