Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

Specious argument.

thanks for that contribution but it illustrates a bit of an empathy gap and as I’m in a hurry I’ll stop responding to your posts - sorry!

Now you’re talking nonsense. Are you implying that a ‘butch’ female is a male? As a teacher myself, I’ve been addressed in many ways, and quite often as ‘Mum’. I’ve never had to tell someone how to address me. The overwhelming majority of children in schools call female teachers ‘Miss’ and male teachers ‘sir’.

Isn't it weird that young people can be put in the position of being coerced into using language they feel uncomfortable with and which essentially signals compliance with a belief system they do not share.

This will then be used as 'proof' against any future attempts to discuss the impact of the TiM on students.

'They all happily use preferred titles and pronouns for Miss Smith, this shows shes accepted as a woman by the students etc etc"

It's a horribly coercive situation to be put in.

Sex & gender have two very different meanings & pronouns are gendered after all. And in any case there's no decree from above that sex trumps gender from a personal point of view. IE both are personal subjective belief systems.

Language matters.

I do think it’s ironic you mention an empathy gap when your daughter is apparently so strong in her beliefs that she won’t even budge from them to consider another point of view.

Where have I said trans people shouldn’t exist? TWAM, TMAW. That’s all I need to know. The fact that you’d bow to the demands of using wrong pronouns indicates that you’re not actually GC in real terms.

But you wouldn’t get a detention or marks on your disciplinary record - you are describing your offer of respect and courtesy on a voluntary basis. Not coerced so it’s slightly different

But this student's belief system is to use sex based pronouns so your random scenario doesn't change anything.

What safeguarding issues are you worried about specifically? What rules do male teachers have that differ from female? I’m guessing things like monitoring behaviour in the toilets?

I would email the school quoting the policies that set out the rules for male teachers and ask for confirmation that TIM would have to adhere to them

What about saying 'M Smith' ? It's gender neutral

Quite obviously, you can get away without addressing a teacher by their name, while still being perfectly polite to them. There is generally only one teacher teaching a class, so it is obvious to whom a student is addressing any answers/queries, etc. If your daughter doesn't want to cause a problem over this she doesn't have to.

I wonder about the extent to which you discuss your own and your daughter's views as if they are identical. "Not GC enough for our beliefs" etc. As if your beliefs are as one.

If that's 100% true, and your daughter spontaneously comes up with these rather convoluted dilemmas, then crack on.

But please don't use her to make your own political point. It may even be a point I agree with. But don't isolate her from her school mates and potentially make her behave in what will be perceived as an extremely rude, anti-social manner, just because you feel so strongly about men who say they are women. It's her life, let her live it.

If I were to refuse to address this colleague or engage with her because of her beliefs I absolutely would face disciplinary action at work.

Can she stomach calling this teacher Ms Smith and focus on achieving her goals? I am in a group that promotes women in a particular male dominated field. There allow men to be members as many of them are supportive but also take the TW are actually women line which is obviously nonsensical. However not only am I woman I’m also working class and therefore doubly disadvantaged in this field. I did think about withdrawing my membership, but then I would lose out on all the benefits. So I stay, and play the game.

its quite chilling. Orwell’s 1994 all over again compelled by the state to parrot lies as truth. Gives me the creeps.

Dont think you have much choice but to play along with it though or you may trigger the inevitable righteous tantrums and inevitable accusations against you.

"But I also think that if someone asks to be called something you should abide by that because it’s respect for them as a person and seeing them as more than how they identify."

In a case where there is a clear power imbalance? Teacher/pupil, boss/employee, officer/soldier? Call me what I want you to call me, or suffer the consequences? Because that is what it leads to, almost always. In Germany we even have a law fining you 10,000 € if you don't subjugate to the wishes of such a person (because you are "revealing" their original sex).

If this male teacher demands to be referred to as “Her Majesty “ because he identifies as the Queen, would pupils be required to use that form of address out of respect?

He is not the Queen so pupils should not be forced to use “Her Majesty”. He is not a woman so pupils should not be forced to use “Miss”.

Young people do not have to respect beliefs that are not and cannot be true.

The polite compromise is Ms

It does for consistencies sake. If we accept belief systems trump social conventions in this case we are pretty much green lighting them generally & that kinda undermines the whole purpose of social convention…social harmony.

Let's hope the OP in all her wisdom bothers to explain to her that as long as she is ok with being misgendered herself then she won't be a hypocrite.

The problem with this belief system is it drags everyone else into having to play along with it unlike most religious. People resent it.

False equivalence.
Definitions rely on social associations/usage. There's no association with royalty as there would be with gender.