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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

1000 replies

KnottyAuty · 06/11/2025 06:50

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

OP posts:
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Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:33

I don't believe that 'pronouns are harmless' at all. The coerced use of wrong sex pronouns causes harm to those who are being pressured to use them when they don't support the philosophical belief behind the demand that others use them.

It is not 'kind' to the person who doesn't wish to use that language that is being demanded.

I find the discussion about respect really only goes one way. People are expected to respect someone demanding that they contort their language away from the established English language conventions to suit someone's philosophical belief.

Which other group in society is there an expectation to do this?

dizzydizzydizzy · 06/11/2025 11:34

I don't understand why your DD can't just call this teacher Ms Smith. I can't honestly see it matters to anyone what a teacher wants to be called or what their gender identity is.

Toutafait · 06/11/2025 11:34

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:29

That very public scenario results in both the teacher and the head being fired in the current UK environment.

Do you really think so? I very much doubt it. But I half hope that OP will try the approach of DD simply going ahead with calling the teacher Mx Smith or Teacher Smith or Betty or refusing to use the teacher's name and just saying "excuse me" every time. And then we can see how the situation develops. Maybe nothing will happen and the teacher will just accept the situation (with behind the scene discussions with the head). It's possible.

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:34

dizzydizzydizzy · 06/11/2025 11:34

I don't understand why your DD can't just call this teacher Ms Smith. I can't honestly see it matters to anyone what a teacher wants to be called or what their gender identity is.

Because 'Ms' is the language used for female people. This person is a male person.

Ultravox · 06/11/2025 11:36

I would use advise your daughter to use an avoidance tactic and call the teacher “Teacher” every time either directly or in 3rd party reference.

I work with a TIM and use their chosen name every time. It can get a bit long-winded not being able to use pronouns but it’s perfectly correct English and not disrespectful.

She absolutely should not be compelled to call the teacher a female pronoun.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:36

Toutafait · 06/11/2025 11:34

Do you really think so? I very much doubt it. But I half hope that OP will try the approach of DD simply going ahead with calling the teacher Mx Smith or Teacher Smith or Betty or refusing to use the teacher's name and just saying "excuse me" every time. And then we can see how the situation develops. Maybe nothing will happen and the teacher will just accept the situation (with behind the scene discussions with the head). It's possible.

Now? yes.

12 months ago - no.

It would be so open and shut, so much press eyes on it, so much that I am sure the head wouldn't do it at all and the teacher themselves may be removed

cardibach · 06/11/2025 11:38

Without making any comment about what I think of the issue in general, when I was at primary school my dad was the headteacher. I went all through primary, including him teaching my class, without ever calling him, or referring to him as, Sir or Mr Xxx (or Dad 🤣). I just put my hand up, or outside the classroom stood nearby expectantly or said ‘excuse me’ if I needed to attract his attention. Perfectly doable. Could be tricky on the rare occasions you have to speak to another teacher and refer to them, but ‘my maths (or whatever) teacher said/asked/did’ should mostly work.

TheAutumnalCrow · 06/11/2025 11:39

DiscoBob · 06/11/2025 11:20

I don't see why they can't just be respectful and call them what they request. It's just politeness. It doesn't mean you have to believe the person has actually changed sex.

I mean I think it would be better if they just used first names like they do in further and HE.

Why should people be compelled to collude in a delusion?? Especially girls. It’s a dangerous slope.

Maddy70 · 06/11/2025 11:39

Just call them what they are requesting to be called. Not everything has to be a big issue and part of being at school is learning how to navigate social difficulties and also follow rules. If the teacher wants to be called miss then that's it.

Why do you think it's a safeguarding issue?

halfandhalfchipsandrice · 06/11/2025 11:39

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Flakey99 · 06/11/2025 11:41

I would absolutely refuse to comply with this ridiculous request as a bloke in a dress or whatever they ‘feel’ is still a bloke so is not entitled to be called Ms as that’s a reserved title for biological females.

I think you need to raise it with the Head and ask for an alternative title to call him such as Teacher.

QuickPeachPoet · 06/11/2025 11:41

This sort of nonsense does not belong in a school

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:41

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:14

I have got carried away @KnottyAuty

Reasons Why a Pupil Should Not and Cannot Be Compelled to Use Wrong-Sex Pronouns

Gender identity is a subjective belief system and ideology, not an objective fact It is contested and not shared by the majority of people, who recognise sex as binary and immutable. Compelling anyone, especially a pupil in a school setting, to use pronouns or titles that contradict biological sex amounts to forced participation. This violates legal protections, safeguarding principles, and basic human rights....

Point by point....

1. It Enforces a Contested Belief System on Others

Gender identity is an ideology akin to a religious or philosophical belief, not a universal truth. Forcing pupils to use wrong sex pronouns requires them to affirm and participate in this belief, even if they hold gender-critical views. Schools cannot compel adherence to one ideology while ignoring others, as this discriminates against GC beliefs, which are protected under equality laws.
In an our society, no one is forced to practice or affirm others' religions or ideologies, so a pupil isn't required to recite prayers or affirm supernatural claims. Just the same, GC pupils should not be coerced into affirming that a male can be a woman, as this erodes mutual respect and tolerance.

2. Power Imbalance and Coercion Make It Abusive

Teachers hold authority over pupils, with the ability to issue detentions, behavior points, or other punishments for non compliance. This creates a coercive environment where pupils fear repercussions for not participating in the teacher's ideology, turning education into indoctrination.
Such compulsion is Orwellian, compelling people to parrot lies as truth under threat, which undermines free thought and expression. It's not voluntary politeness but enforced speech, which can lead to broader societal harm, like court cases where victims are forced to use wrong-sex pronouns for their abusers.

3. Safeguarding Risks to Children

Requiring pupils to ignore their senses (spotting a male in the females) dulls instincts and teaches them to disregard potential threats, which is a major safeguarding failure. This is especially dangerous in a girls' school, where an authority figure insisting on female pronouns could normalise boundary violations and increase vulnerability to grooming or exploitation.

Pronouns act like Rohypnol, numbing natural perceptions of sex differences. Forcing this on children prioritises an adult's feelings over pupils' safety and mental well-being, distracting from learning and causing cognitive dissonance.

4. Legal and Policy Protections Prohibit Compulsion

No one can be legally compelled to use preferred pronouns if it conflicts with their beliefs. Government guidance and ministers have confirmed that schools cannot enforce this, as it violates protections for philosophical beliefs under human rights laws. Pupils have the right to express GC views without punishment, and schools must accommodate this, not suppress it.
If a school enforces wrong-sex pronouns, it signals intolerance for GC beliefs, breaching equality duties.

5. It Undermines Education and Mental Focus

Pupils are in school to learn, not navigate ideological minefields. Constant mental gymnastics, avoiding natural language or forcing unnatural pronouns diverts energy from education and creates unnecessary stress. This is amplified in a power-imbalanced setting, where fear of punishment could lead to self-censorship or isolation from peers.

6. Majority Non Agreement and Broader Societal Harm

Most people do not subscribe to gender ideology - surveys show widespread recognition of sex as binary. Compelling minority beliefs on the majority erodes social harmony, as it prioritizes one group's demands over others'. This can lead to resentment, as the ideology requires everyone to play along and be nice unlike other beliefs that don't demand universal participation.
It sets a precedent for further issues, such as males accessing female spaces which directly impacts safety and privacy. In a girls' school, hiring a male teacher who demands female pronouns already blurs these boundaries. I see red flags.

7. Anti-Science and Morally Dubious

Sex is a biological fact, not a feeling. Forcing pupils to affirm otherwise promotes anti science rubbish, teaching them to lie about observable reality. This is morally wrong, as it prioritises adult validation over children's truthfulness and development.

This is absolute garbage. You as a parent should be rejecting this at the highest level for all these reasons.

This is before we ask what the schools policy is about trans identifying males in a female only school? I assume you have asked....

@Maddy70 - this is why it's not ok to call the teacher what they say.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:43

Maddy70 · 06/11/2025 11:39

Just call them what they are requesting to be called. Not everything has to be a big issue and part of being at school is learning how to navigate social difficulties and also follow rules. If the teacher wants to be called miss then that's it.

Why do you think it's a safeguarding issue?

Because he is a man and 99% of sexual assaults are carried out by males? That alone is enough for extra checks. But red flags aplenty appear when someone is lying, blatantly, about fundamental evident truths.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 06/11/2025 11:44

Bit late to the party, but:

Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school
Holdmeclosertinydancer2018 · 06/11/2025 11:46

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JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:46

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/11/2025 11:43

Because he is a man and 99% of sexual assaults are carried out by males? That alone is enough for extra checks. But red flags aplenty appear when someone is lying, blatantly, about fundamental evident truths.

In the context of a student/teacher relationship, what things could a female teacher do that a male could not do with students?

dizzydizzydizzy · 06/11/2025 11:46

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:34

Because 'Ms' is the language used for female people. This person is a male person.

Obviously I know that. What the kids have to call the teacher has no impact on how that teacher teaches them. It seems like a total non-issue to me.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 06/11/2025 11:47

Howseitgoin · 06/11/2025 07:28

It does for consistencies sake. If we accept belief systems trump social conventions in this case we are pretty much green lighting them generally & that kinda undermines the whole purpose of social convention…social harmony.

Let's hope the OP in all her wisdom bothers to explain to her that as long as she is ok with being misgendered herself then she won't be a hypocrite.

But this is a clear example of the imposition of a social "convention". Up to about ten years ago, pronouns (in my lengthy experience) were always based on the user's perception of sex, not on the addressed person's self image. The attempt to change the social convention has been underhand and coercive. It is not surprising that there is now resistance to this.

It is as if audible prayer in public had been socially normalised, with a requirement for everyone within earshot to say an audible Amen!

Howseitgoin · 06/11/2025 11:47

cardibach · 06/11/2025 11:38

Without making any comment about what I think of the issue in general, when I was at primary school my dad was the headteacher. I went all through primary, including him teaching my class, without ever calling him, or referring to him as, Sir or Mr Xxx (or Dad 🤣). I just put my hand up, or outside the classroom stood nearby expectantly or said ‘excuse me’ if I needed to attract his attention. Perfectly doable. Could be tricky on the rare occasions you have to speak to another teacher and refer to them, but ‘my maths (or whatever) teacher said/asked/did’ should mostly work.

Kinda like "those who shall not be named"? AKA Voldemort?

There's an iconic film called The Elephant Man that some people could really benefit from…

I mean, is it any wonder bullying is rampant with parental advice like this?

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:48

It is a safeguarding issue because it moves a person from the sex category of male into the female sex category linguistically. This creates the messaging in a female person's brain, and others who that person is communicating with, that they should treat them as if that person was just another female person.

For instance:

Ms X entered the female changing room today while we were changing to do a check.

vs

Mr X entered the female changing room today while we were changing to do a check.

This is just one aspect of how using female language for a male person is harmful.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:48

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Would you say the same about a teacher who is a trans man and insists on being called "Mr"?

Tartantotty · 06/11/2025 11:49

Yes, another instance of this gender neutral issue creating problems. Children must be growing up seriously confused by all this. The trans lobby, minute as it is, is the tail wagging the dog.

JadeSquid · 06/11/2025 11:50

Helleofabore · 06/11/2025 11:48

It is a safeguarding issue because it moves a person from the sex category of male into the female sex category linguistically. This creates the messaging in a female person's brain, and others who that person is communicating with, that they should treat them as if that person was just another female person.

For instance:

Ms X entered the female changing room today while we were changing to do a check.

vs

Mr X entered the female changing room today while we were changing to do a check.

This is just one aspect of how using female language for a male person is harmful.

I'm not sure any teacher should be entering the children's changing room.

HipTightOnions · 06/11/2025 11:50

It’s not just about “respecting what they want to be called” though, is it? Titles and pronouns denote something.

Are the children required to believe that this person actually is a woman, even though they can see he isn’t? Will they think a man has changed sex? Or that they must pretend in order to make him happy?

They don’t have the option of just using names, like we can, adult to adult. They may be required to answer “yes miss” when answering the register, for example.

We had this issue at my school. I think it’s the next battleground. Please, if you have the stomach for it, take it on. I suspect you are more likely to be listened to as a parent than I was as a teacher.

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