Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

Which paraphilias do you consider non harmful? Most are predicated on non consensual participation.

Theyre listed on the same link I posted earlier.

Yet at least five times more men who identify as women are sex offenders than men who don’t.

What are men pretending to be women?

Are you saying that all trans women just have a sexual fetish?

That's rubbish.

The kindness economy is basically extractive.

The existence of trans people is based on sexism.

It is literally impossible to believe that one (or anyone else) is trans in the TWAW/TMAM sense (as opposed to the a person of one sex who wants to be treated like the opposite sex sense) unless you believe that the fundamental and defining difference between men and women is how we think.

No.

And the figures hold up elsewhere in the English-speaking world.

You missed the media coverage of the NHS spending ¼ million + of tax money ?
(and as they pissed off the two Regulator with their antics that much much more money will be diverted from frontline services?)

The media coverage on their HR belief that a female employee has a contracted obligation to provide a stripshow for male staff member and attend a stripshow of that male staff in her work place changing room?

That some senior staff wanted the female employee arrested for objecting to that demanded change of contract?

Or that the NHS trust has employed and continues to employ a whole lot of staff in the medical hospital who would claim not be able to correctly ID if a human was male or female?

That a male employee expected other staff to ignore that you have a right to informed consent in your medical decisions?

Why don't you turn off safe search, and have a quick google for that one - I'm not linking to any of that.

These things are not separate things though.

The underlying sexist beliefs about womanhood that can lead a man to considers himself a "she" are the same beliefs that can lead him to call a young girl a slag or insert himself into resources and protections intended for female people because he feels his own need is greater.

I'm aware of that, just as most men in general aren't in jail and nor are most women. We are talking per capita (I assume you understand how that works, but many people don't and I'm genuinely happy to explain if not), and comparing sexual offending rates between those different groups.

We are also talking about criminality which is why prison statistics are relevant.

You need to look at the last census because that is what it showed. Men who identify as trans are at least five times more likely to be sex offenders than other men. Just because you don’t like the fact doesn’t make it untrue.

Men as a whole are also about fifty times more likely to be sex offenders than women. So men who identify as women will be around 250 times more likely to be sex offenders than women.

So it's ok to hire a trans person but only on the condition they hide the fact they are trans. Got it.

It’s teaching children a taboo on calling men men. One that they will generalise outside the classroom.

It’s teaching children to inhibit themselves from speaking clearly of what they experience.

That’s in itself bad.

But given the power imbalance and the far greater risk posed by males than by females, in a scenario of potential abuse it will put children at risk, whether or not the risk is from that particular individual.

That's MOJ stats on sex offenders in prison. From a FOI request. Actual cold hard numbers on convicted sex offenders

Head to Fair Play For Women or Sex Matters for more evidence.

That's the trouble with arguing with women who've been doing this a good while - we keep the receipts.

You said:
Do trans women have higher rates of sex offending than men? Please give me a summary of the reaearch in 750 words with reference to studies that support your conclusions.

ChatGPT said:
Here is a summary of what the research does (and does not) show about offending rates by trans women, particularly sexual offending. The short version is: there is no strong evidence that trans women in the general population have higher rates of sexual offending than cisgender men; there are data in prison populations indicating that a subgroup of male‐born prisoners identifying as trans women have higher proportions of sexual‐offence convictions than typical female prison populations — but that does not straightforwardly imply higher risk across all trans women or compared to cis men. I’ll walk through the key findings, caveats, and limitations.

Key findings
Cisgender sex‐offender patterns
It is well established that the vast majority of convicted sexual offenders are male. For example, in England & Wales nearly 98 % of sexual‐offence convictions are male.
Sex Matters
+1

Thus any comparison of trans women (who by definition are a small and heterogeneous population) must take into account the baseline male‐patterns of offending.

Studies of ‘gender diverse’ / transgender prisoners
The most robust data come from correctional populations rather than community prevalence studies. A landmark study by the Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) examined “gender diverse offenders” (which included trans women, trans men, and “other gender diverse” persons) in federal custody.
Canada
+1

In the CSC’s “Examination of Gender Diverse Offenders” (R-442) it was found that 62 % of the 99 gender diverse offenders were trans women.
Canada
+1

Of the 33 gender diverse offenders with a history of sexual offending, 82 % were trans women.
Canada
+1

Importantly, most of the sexual offences by these gender‐diverse offenders were committed prior to or while living in their birth‐assigned sex, not after full transition: ~94 % in one dataset.
Canada
+1

The CSC study also found that gender diverse offenders had criminal histories and risk/need profiles similar to male offenders (in men’s institutions), rather than female offenders, in terms of sentence length, security classification, history of violent or sexual offending.
Canada
+1

A more recent CSC “Research in Brief” (RIB-24-08) found that among 155 gender diverse offenders (Dec 2017-Sep 2021) 37 % (n = 57) had sex offence histories. Of these 57, 86 % were transgender women (0 % transgender men, 14 % “other”).
Canada
+1

UK data / prison population
In the UK, advocacy groups and some analyses have pointed to figures such as: at the end of March 2021 there were 11,660 men and 103 women in prison in England & Wales for sex offences, and 92 “trans women” (male‐born prisoners identifying as trans women) recorded in that category. Using rough population estimates this has been used to argue that trans women may be over‐represented.
Sex Matters

For example, one widely cited breakdown: 76 of 129 male-born prisoners identifying as trans women had at least one sex‐offence conviction (≈ 58.9 %) in a MoJ FOI in 2019.
@katie_pinns
+1

ChatGPT

Log in

You said:
Do trans women have higher rates of sex offending than men? Please give me a summary of the reaearch in 750 words with reference to studies that support your conclusions.
ChatGPT said:
Here is a summary of what the research does (and does not) show about offending rates by trans women, particularly sexual offending. The short version is: there is no strong evidence that trans women in the general population have higher rates of sexual offending than cisgender men; there are data in prison populations indicating that a subgroup of male‐born prisoners identifying as trans women have higher proportions of sexual‐offence convictions than typical female prison populations — but that does not straightforwardly imply higher risk across all trans women or compared to cis men. I’ll walk through the key findings, caveats, and limitations.

Key findings
Cisgender sex‐offender patterns
It is well established that the vast majority of convicted sexual offenders are male. For example, in England & Wales nearly 98 % of sexual‐offence convictions are male.
Sex Matters
+1

Thus any comparison of trans women (who by definition are a small and heterogeneous population) must take into account the baseline male‐patterns of offending.

Studies of ‘gender diverse’ / transgender prisoners
The most robust data come from correctional populations rather than community prevalence studies. A landmark study by the Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) examined “gender diverse offenders” (which included trans women, trans men, and “other gender diverse” persons) in federal custody.
Canada
+1

In the CSC’s “Examination of Gender Diverse Offenders” (R-442) it was found that 62 % of the 99 gender diverse offenders were trans women.
Canada
+1

Of the 33 gender diverse offenders with a history of sexual offending, 82 % were trans women.
Canada
+1

Importantly, most of the sexual offences by these gender‐diverse offenders were committed prior to or while living in their birth‐assigned sex, not after full transition: ~94 % in one dataset.
Canada
+1

The CSC study also found that gender diverse offenders had criminal histories and risk/need profiles similar to male offenders (in men’s institutions), rather than female offenders, in terms of sentence length, security classification, history of violent or sexual offending.
Canada
+1

A more recent CSC “Research in Brief” (RIB-24-08) found that among 155 gender diverse offenders (Dec 2017-Sep 2021) 37 % (n = 57) had sex offence histories. Of these 57, 86 % were transgender women (0 % transgender men, 14 % “other”).
Canada
+1

UK data / prison population
In the UK, advocacy groups and some analyses have pointed to figures such as: at the end of March 2021 there were 11,660 men and 103 women in prison in England & Wales for sex offences, and 92 “trans women” (male‐born prisoners identifying as trans women) recorded in that category. Using rough population estimates this has been used to argue that trans women may be over‐represented.
Sex Matters

For example, one widely cited breakdown: 76 of 129 male-born prisoners identifying as trans women had at least one sex‐offence conviction (≈ 58.9 %) in a MoJ FOI in 2019.
@katie_pinns
+1

Interpretation and caveats

Population denominator problem: Many of the figures cited compare small numbers of trans individuals in prison with much larger populations of cis men or women. Because the trans population size (especially trans women, male‐born) is relatively small and hard to enumerate accurately, rates per capita are imprecise and subject to large error margins. For instance, in UK census‐based work one blog reported that using “92 trans women in prison for sex offences out of 48,000 trans women in population = 1 in 522” which was then compared to 1 in 2,530 men.
Sex Matters

Selective population (prisoners): All the strong data come from incarcerated populations; they do not tell us about trans women in the general (community) population. Prisoner populations are highly selected (by offence type, history, security risk). So finding higher proportions of sex‐offence convictions among male-born trans prisoners does not imply that trans women generally have higher risk of offending.

Timing of offences: The Canadian data emphasize that many offences by gender diverse offenders occurred prior to their gender identity change or while living in their birth‐assigned sex. So conflating trans identity per se with heightened offending risk is misleading.

Small numbers: The total number of gender‐diverse offenders in these studies is small (e.g., 99 in the CSC R-442 cohort). Hence statistical generalisation is very limited. The studies themselves caution against over‐interpretation.

Confounding factors: Transgender and gender diverse populations face significant marginalisation, trauma, substance abuse, incarceration risk, and other criminogenic needs. The CSC data indicate high rates of childhood abuse, high dynamic risk, low reintegration potential among the subgroup with sex offence histories.
Canada
+1
This suggests that increased risk may be more about prior risk factors than transition status or gender identity per se.

Lack of comparative community‐based prevalence studies: There is no large‐scale, representative community‐based study demonstrating that trans women have higher rates of sexual offending than cis men or women. Many media reports or advocacy arguments extrapolate from prison statistics, which is problematic.

ChatGPT

Log in

You said:
Do trans women have higher rates of sex offending than men? Please give me a summary of the reaearch in 750 words with reference to studies that support your conclusions.
ChatGPT said:
Here is a summary of what the research does (and does not) show about offending rates by trans women, particularly sexual offending. The short version is: there is no strong evidence that trans women in the general population have higher rates of sexual offending than cisgender men; there are data in prison populations indicating that a subgroup of male‐born prisoners identifying as trans women have higher proportions of sexual‐offence convictions than typical female prison populations — but that does not straightforwardly imply higher risk across all trans women or compared to cis men. I’ll walk through the key findings, caveats, and limitations.

Key findings
Cisgender sex‐offender patterns
It is well established that the vast majority of convicted sexual offenders are male. For example, in England & Wales nearly 98 % of sexual‐offence convictions are male.
Sex Matters
+1

Thus any comparison of trans women (who by definition are a small and heterogeneous population) must take into account the baseline male‐patterns of offending.

Studies of ‘gender diverse’ / transgender prisoners
The most robust data come from correctional populations rather than community prevalence studies. A landmark study by the Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) examined “gender diverse offenders” (which included trans women, trans men, and “other gender diverse” persons) in federal custody.
Canada
+1

In the CSC’s “Examination of Gender Diverse Offenders” (R-442) it was found that 62 % of the 99 gender diverse offenders were trans women.
Canada
+1

Of the 33 gender diverse offenders with a history of sexual offending, 82 % were trans women.
Canada
+1

Importantly, most of the sexual offences by these gender‐diverse offenders were committed prior to or while living in their birth‐assigned sex, not after full transition: ~94 % in one dataset.
Canada
+1

The CSC study also found that gender diverse offenders had criminal histories and risk/need profiles similar to male offenders (in men’s institutions), rather than female offenders, in terms of sentence length, security classification, history of violent or sexual offending.
Canada
+1

A more recent CSC “Research in Brief” (RIB-24-08) found that among 155 gender diverse offenders (Dec 2017-Sep 2021) 37 % (n = 57) had sex offence histories. Of these 57, 86 % were transgender women (0 % transgender men, 14 % “other”).
Canada
+1

UK data / prison population
In the UK, advocacy groups and some analyses have pointed to figures such as: at the end of March 2021 there were 11,660 men and 103 women in prison in England & Wales for sex offences, and 92 “trans women” (male‐born prisoners identifying as trans women) recorded in that category. Using rough population estimates this has been used to argue that trans women may be over‐represented.
Sex Matters

For example, one widely cited breakdown: 76 of 129 male-born prisoners identifying as trans women had at least one sex‐offence conviction (≈ 58.9 %) in a MoJ FOI in 2019.
@katie_pinns
+1

Interpretation and caveats
Population denominator problem: Many of the figures cited compare small numbers of trans individuals in prison with much larger populations of cis men or women. Because the trans population size (especially trans women, male‐born) is relatively small and hard to enumerate accurately, rates per capita are imprecise and subject to large error margins. For instance, in UK census‐based work one blog reported that using “92 trans women in prison for sex offences out of 48,000 trans women in population = 1 in 522” which was then compared to 1 in 2,530 men.
Sex Matters

Selective population (prisoners): All the strong data come from incarcerated populations; they do not tell us about trans women in the general (community) population. Prisoner populations are highly selected (by offence type, history, security risk). So finding higher proportions of sex‐offence convictions among male-born trans prisoners does not imply that trans women generally have higher risk of offending.

Timing of offences: The Canadian data emphasize that many offences by gender diverse offenders occurred prior to their gender identity change or while living in their birth‐assigned sex. So conflating trans identity per se with heightened offending risk is misleading.

Small numbers: The total number of gender‐diverse offenders in these studies is small (e.g., 99 in the CSC R-442 cohort). Hence statistical generalisation is very limited. The studies themselves caution against over‐interpretation.

Confounding factors: Transgender and gender diverse populations face significant marginalisation, trauma, substance abuse, incarceration risk, and other criminogenic needs. The CSC data indicate high rates of childhood abuse, high dynamic risk, low reintegration potential among the subgroup with sex offence histories.
Canada
+1
This suggests that increased risk may be more about prior risk factors than transition status or gender identity per se.

Lack of comparative community‐based prevalence studies: There is no large‐scale, representative community‐based study demonstrating that trans women have higher rates of sexual offending than cis men or women. Many media reports or advocacy arguments extrapolate from prison statistics, which is problematic.

Summary conclusion
The evidence does not support the claim that trans women (as a demographic group) have a higher rate of sexual offending than cisgender men.

What is supported in the literature is that male-born individuals who identify as trans women and who are incarcerated appear to have a higher prevalence of sexual‐offence convictions compared to typical female prisoner populations, and have offending/ sentence profiles more similar to male offenders.

However, this is a very selected subgroup (prisoners) and cannot be generalised to all trans women. The offence history often predates or coincides with living in the birth‐assigned sex, which complicates attribution to the identity or transition.

Because of small numbers, selection bias, and population denominator issues, one must interpret the data cautiously.

Importantly, the research also highlights major risk‐factors (childhood abuse, trauma, substance use) among the subgroup of gender‐diverse sex offenders, which suggests that addressing these underlying factors is crucial rather than attributing risk simply to being a trans woman.

Mostly women, but anyone with a personal reason to be concerned about women's rights or the effects of trans ideology (in my case on my son, who I really don't want to damage himself with hormones or surgery). I started looking more deeply into trans ideas when my son announced his trans identity. The more I looked, particularly at the writings of trans people themselves, the more concerned I became. That led me to trying to work out my own understanding of sex and gender in a much more careful and deep way than previously.

I am grateful to many women and a few men on this board who have patiently (well, sometimes!) explained their views, clearly and logically. If I now appear somewhat obsessed, it is because my family has been split apart, with trans people on both sides of the split, over a deep division in the trans world, between the activists who demonise anyone who doesn't adopt their whole worldview, and those trans people who accept that not everyone has to see things as they do.

Are you saying that all trans women are just men with kinks?

How's your relationship with your child now?

Uypu'd

'Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?'

You keep asking this question.

Yes because I am trying to establish what is being said by the people who keep taking about men with kinks. I dont see their relevance to a discussion on trans people.