Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

You seem to have great offence that Ms Smith appears to not be female at birth.
but does it hurt you?
does it hurt ms smith’s teaching?
does it hurt DD?

Ms Smith is a male.

Ms Smith is asking the female children to pretend that he is also female, and use female pronouns.

It doesn't 'hurt' the children but it sure will be confusing for them. They can hear, see and smell that Ms Smith is a male, but are required to call him 'Ms'. I would imagine that they will be concerned / confused by this, particularly as they are likely to slip up.

I'm not sure whether Ms Smith's teaching would be impacted, but I would be concerned that Ms Smith might spend more time policing the language of the children, rather than teaching them algebra.

Ultimately what we are asking the children to do is to lie. I can see why the OP is uncomfortable with asking her child to do this.

This is a male teacher trying to hide that he’s male 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

If your daughter grows up to be the head teacher, does kindness dictate that she must compel students to say ‘Miss’? Because the compulsion in this scenario is coming from one direction only. No one here has said students must banned from doing so.

Under what circumstances does kindness compel obedience?

You missed the point I was making.

What I am saying is that it's not up to OP to tell their child they must stand up for themselves in this instance.

And, yes, OP could go to the school and kick up a fuss, but that is still not standing up for yourself. It might at best be standing up for your child, but since OP is not going to be their 24/7, there is a risk the school will take it out on the child like some schools do with "difficult parents". It shouldn't happen, but sometimes it does and it is something to consider before deciding.

The reason that professor and doctor were "male" only title words is that females were not allowed to participate in these roles in public life.

There is no need for a society to create a sexed word for a role that society would allow women to carryout.

Calling a transwoman "Mr." or "Sir" to his face is probably tipping the balance too far: it would be your daughter drawing attention to her own beliefs, and forcing them on everybody else. It would also be very disruptive.

LOL.

Why would it be disruptive to call a male teacher Mr? Why is it bad to draw attention to her beliefs, but not to his?

Only here many posters would actually say "I'm not Christian and I wish everyone 'Merry Christmas' there's no problem with expecting that it's just being polite!"
Sure noone is saying you can't, but compelling someone (such as someone who works in a shop and is Muslim) would be wrong.

When I lived in Malaysia, all the shopping centres kitted out for Christmas and most shop staff, and my colleagues wished me a Merry Christmas with a smile - just like in return, I'd say 'Eid Mubarak' to them..... because that's what people do in polite society.

It is essential that adults stand up for children who are at a safeguarding risk. What else do you think OP should ignore because you don’t think she has the right to protect her DD? (Parental rights are a thing)

How can his name be legally Ms Smith?

Why are there posts on this thread that keep referring to 'Ms' as if this title is a first name? Am I missing something here?

Yes agree. They are individuals and the equality act doesn’t apply to individuals.

She can protect her daughter, but it can't be done at this school. OP is not there 24/7 and the school have already shown they don't care.

What have men with sexual kinks got to do with trans people?

Men who identify as women seems to confuse an awful lot of adults.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Are you saying that you think I have a penis or am a trans woman because I don't agree with you? Please don't mince your words. Be proud of them. Are you accusing me of being a man because I have different views to you? Is this what the comment is about?

So because they are quiet and docile, you wouldnt mind giving them some validation?

The only reason Mr is used for men and Miss / Mrs for women is because society has assigned them that way - they are gender coded in the same way household roles, jobs, clothes, makeup, names and toys are. They have absolutely nothing to do with biological reality of someone's sex.

No, it hasn’t. Society has ‘gender-coded’ the roles associated with Mrs and Mr (eg Mrs Bloggs should do the dishes and the laundry, and Mr. Bloggs should put the rubbish out, be the main wage-earner, do DIY, etc) but the titles Mrs/Miss and Mr are sex-based.

I posted the link upthread, to the manual the NHS use to diagnose gender incongruence.

This diagnosis requires excluding fetishistic transvestism.

Yes - your points are very clear. Parents shouldn't encourage their children to be assertive and speak up for themselves and shouldn't go into school to discuss concerns in case bullying transactivist teachers may subsequently bully their children.

I am simply pointing out that it is this (well founded) fear of reprisals that has allowed extreme transgender beliefs to be foisted on children. Hence the excessive number of teenage girls (and some boys) who've been caught up in all this and now seek to mutilate their bodies and render themselves infertile because some (not all) schools have allowed trans ideology to run amok. Of course much of the social contagion exists online and out of schools, but there's a reason so many trans lobby groups and individuals made a beeline for education, children in care of the state and children's charities. They've earned a lot of money from "training" schools and children in trans ideology and enforcing the belief that children's bodies can be flawed but a sex change can be the cure.

It's parents speaking up about this and holding schools to account for how they've pushed this at children that's starting to have an impact in stopping this gaslighting of children in schools.

"or males who already have a propensity are more likely to genuinely consider themselves trans"

No this maths if yours isnt mathing. Most trans women arent in jail and have never been to jail.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Stephen Whittle has done a lot of harm with her Transactivist demands, often behind closed doors.

No PP clarified, the teacher has a responsibility not to discriminate against children in his classroom. There is no reciprocal requirement under the act to require children not to discriminate against him.

It's a school, call the teacher Ms if that's what they want. Consider it the same as John, Tom, Sue, whatever.

It's not asking anyone to change their beliefs it's just a title or a name.

On a separate note it would helpful if the pupils focused on what they're being taught. The teacher might actually be good at their job. Controversial I know......

Why distract the children with this kind of nonsense though? They are there to be taught. Not affirm 'gender identities'. Why are we making that their responsibility?

I think your DD is being stubborn and I think we should use whatever name we like. I say that as someone who doesn’t believe someone can change their sex. I also don’t think single sex spaces should be up for grabs. Women only means women only. We shouldn’t need to defend that and tie ourselves in knots having to specify what makes someone a woman. I have every sympathy with Sandie Peggy and the Darlington nurses.

However I also think if some wants to be called Ms Smith or anything else as patently ridiculous then so be it. People should be able to take whichever monicker they like. Because I call someone Ms Smith, doesn’t mean I agree they are a woman. I may even refuse to refer to this teacher as she. Or “they” for that matter. I would deliberately call them Ms Smith every single time either directly to ms smith or about ms smith. (You know like the yes/no game where you don’t want to be tripped into saying yes or no. So you opt for “I do” or “I would not”. So for me it would be “ms smith did say that” or “it belongs to ms smith”. Never “she said that” or “it’s hers”. I would even make it pretty obvious this was my Fuck You!!!!)

But as for the name, I think we all have the right to be called whatever we want. I may even go to work tomorrow and insist they call me BustyLaRoux instead of my normal name. They can laugh behind my back (or most likely to me face), but it is my right to have the name I want.

Perhaps the compromise for your DD is that she will use the name (ms smith) but will not be coerced into referring to said teacher as she/her. That is the bit the teacher and school cannot make her say if she doesn’t want to. Besides if she just always uses “ms smith” instead of she/her, it is not incorrect. But your DD will know she has made her stand and they will also know it, but they can’t reprimand her for it as it is what the teacher has asked to be called.

I don’t know, it’s a good question. There is some data suggesting that paraphilias cluster, including cross-dressing.

Personally I’m not bothered by paraphilias that aren’t harmful. I do care about harmful paraphilias though.

Out of 245 trans offenders in the UK prison system on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. That’s a startlingly high share.

What do you think the link is?