Advice please - TIM teacher just arrived at DD’s school

[KnottyAuty]

DD reports that the new teacher has asked to be referred to as she/her and Ms Smith. They are obviously male. DD isn’t happy about the power imbalance of potential behaviour points and detentions for non compliance.

I’ve got no idea how to advice DD how to handle this but obviously know from reading here that using this language is a safeguarding problem. Ms Smith should follow the same rules as all the other male teachers. If everyone must use this language, then it looks like the school is unable to tolerate GC beliefs.

Suggesting that DD respectfully avoids pronouns doesn’t seem workable as using the teacher’s name will include “Miss”….

Is there a gender neutral way of referring to a teacher like “Professor”?!

What do I advise DD so she can work within her GC beliefs? And what should I write to the school to say about this?

eta clarification

I think it depends what news sources you go to. I watch BBC news at least once a day amd never saw this once.

Thankfully some of us have been busy trying to keep women's rights from disappearing entirely.

It's been an uphill fight, it's currently the steepest its ever been, so thank God SOME women have been on this.

He/Him and She/Her are binary and are the coded language used to describe someone by their sex - which is why they are classed as pronouns.

Title is purely to do with someone's status, which is why they are not pronouns.

Not having a female version of dr / reverand / professor is not sexist - very much the opposite in fact because it does not bring someone's sex into their profession or qualifications.

Mr / Mrs is sexist because men are called Mr from a young age, Master is rarely used anymore and was never used past adulthood, whereas Miss is still widespread for unmarried women - it's why Ms was introduced as it was supposed to be equivalent to Mr in that it didn't give away someone's marital status and therefore allow them to be judged by it.

Differentiating male actors and female actors with actor / actress was sexist which is why the word actress is rarely used now. Same reason air hostess was changed to cabin crew - but that is a non-sequieter anyway, because they are professions, not titles!

As for the barb about going to a different school - what was the need? Just for clarity, this was something I studied as part of the feminism and symbology modules in my bachelors degree and the identity module in my masters degree!

Someone else's gender identity is literally nothing to do with me, that's the whole point! Someone 'being' a certain way isn't a lack of respect for anyone else.

No I thought it was a feminist board to talk about sex and gender. Not just rant about trans people.

You have not explained why though? You have just stated we should respect how they identify. Safeguarding says absolutely the opposite.

I'm sorry, I'm confused.

You still feel I need to use the language choices that a trans person wishes because that is 'respect' for their belief and identity.

You don't feel that trans person owes me any kind of equality of 'respect' about my language choices or my beliefs?

There's no kind of live and let live here, no reciprocation - what's this lack of equality of respect about?

From the posts I've read most people are ok with teacher calling themselves whatever they like. It is the requirement for anyone else to call them she/her/Miss/Ms that is the problem. The teacher is bringing that into the classroom.

I'm happy to read that post if there is something more I need to learn other than the summary you have given.

How is it possible to defend women's rights, places, and language from men who pretend to be women, without mentioning trans people?

I don't accept the characterisation that we "just rant".

Have not RTFT
but
Debbie Hayton's kids call him dad.

For a teacher to force a child to lie about what they can see is a safeguarding fail.

The key point will be though
is the school complying with the law on single sex toilets / changing rooms and washing areas
for staff
and pupils

It is so interesting to me. What other characteristics are children made to acknowledge over and over again in their interactions with a teacher?:

Ability? No, a pupil would not have to continuous reference any kind of disability a teacher might have.
Ethnicity / race? Nope.
Religion? Nope.
Class? Nope.
Immigration status? Nope.
Age? Nope.

Why must the pupils need to draw their minds to the teacher's particular preferred gender identity over and over again throughout the school day?

I find it quite easy. Most if how I am oppressed as a woman has nothing at all to do with trans people and won't form any part of my conversation about being a woman.

Wonderful.

As I said, you have your own boundaries around language and other's choose to have different ones. No person should be pressuring others, particularly children, to use language conventions, even those socially constructed, that don't reflect the material sex of the person they are referring to.

You wouldn't believe the hours - years - the women of FWR have spent reading up on "all of this", Jade. Whole days following tribunals and court cases, endless studies, reports, digging into the details of policies at schools, NHS Trusts, the civil service and others.

Some of us me even have crushes on some of our heroes and heroines, like Naomi Cunningham and Ben Cooper who have taken the fight through the courts and triumphed.

We've contributed to crowdfunding, been to conferences, protests, lobbied our MPs and councillors, and debated with some who are clearly in bad faith and just here for the screenshots, because there may be others reading along for whom this is all new.

I name change frequently, but have been here for more than eight years and I'm practically a noob compared to some of the articulate and informed women who post here. FWR is not for the fainthearted.

Oh that's so five years ago. Need to try a bit harder there.

I disagree, I don't think anyone, least of all children, should feel obligated to participate in others' beliefs.

No - I'm pointing out that it is extremely taxing to mis-label something that you've been taught all your life.

It's called the Stroop effect - look it up and you'll see that it is an issue that can become better with practise, but the dissonance is real, and has a strong effect.

And that's before all the other issues involved with men masquerading as women

Someone else's gender identity is literally nothing to do with me, that's the whole point!
This is the point. The teacher's identity feelings shouldn't be imposed on the kids. Asking children to address the teacher as if their sex is different from reality is trying to make his gender identity something to do with them. A bit like demanding they say Amen to Christian prayers. You can ask them to sit quietly and respectfully during a prayer, but you can't demand they participate or penalise them for choosing not to.

Maybe this thread will answer why the BBC did not report on the case.

Oh

Probably because it is only of great interest to a small number of people.

So we know you don’t know about Peggie vs NHS Fife and Upton and the multiple threads on it on this board (currently on thread 54). I presume you haven’t read the threads on the Darlington nurses case (currently only 7 to catch up on)? The Supreme Court case bought by FWS? ERCC where genderideology there was described as ‘extreme’ by the the judge? Phoenix vs open university? Forstater? Or the numerous (and rapidly growing number) of organisations that have been found to have discriminated against women as a result of their adherence to gender ideology?

Yes, a trans person does of course owe you the same respect. They can call you she, her or whatever you choose. But you don't get to determine what THEY want to be called. It's not the same thing at all.

Nope. The titles seemed boring.

Ok, so you are here in bad faith. I did wonder.